thank you

i did not have clearity of this problem

now i do

victoria michelson
psichologist of university of chile

Understanding this is why I don’t really try, or at least try to appear, that I’m necessarily against religion…not anymore then being against fundamentalists, luddites and so on….none of them are “bad” people by any means – but merely misguided….they simply need to remind themselves and remember, that when the day comes when we DO actually have practical means in the real world to achieve all the things that their philosophy talked about, they should embrace it…because otherwise, now they are abusing and hurting, not just other people, but themselves.

It’s fine if you believe in such things in a temporary-sense; that you are trying to hold out in some way until such means are really available…but when you actually now start to prefer to the philosophy to the actual real-world means…now you are just deluding yourselves — people are finally having available what your philosophy essentially advocated all along……why fight it?

What a waste of time, just die already and float space,time and the 42 other dimensions.

And this “even more deluded than the fundamentalists” from him his just bs rhetorics, since it can be said about every side in a discussion, it adds absolutely nothing and is superflous.And, it tries weakly to implicate he’s a neutral observer, when in fact he is member of the fundamentalists.Sort of how christians sometimes talk in the third person about their religion and it’s followers, but still say things that would only make sense when based on some of their teachings/axioms.

You see, I’m on your side concerning this topic.

Have a nice day:)

nah, I didn’t, the site still keeps its chronology straight even though not bothering to echo out.

These are state laws, and should be vigorously protested. They should be changed — in at least one state in the USA. Perhaps there is an overseas location where Alcor could set up an office for those of us who wish to be time-jumpers. But the current system — where the government insists on not only the right to kill you, but insists on doing so — is completely untenable. Fight for your right to immortality!!!

The discussion about people being “more than a body” is irrelevant; indeed, such a belief is compatible with cryonics. When an individual presents for cryopreservation, the ideal circumstance is that the standby and OR team will be perfusing and preserving a living organ.The arbitrary criteria for “legal death” are typically met when the patient flatlines (an arrested heart can be restarted as easily as bioelectrical activity in the brain. In the case of the terminal patient, the standard merely means “We can now give up because there’s nothing more that our technology can do to save this person” (although this often isn’t necessarily the case either).

It’s important to understand that when the carotid is cannulated and the brain is perfused, it’s being done to a *living organ* with *living, functioning cells.* In the case of the brain, the fine cellular structure on which memories are embedded is intact.

To combat ischemia and aid perfusion, CPS is initiated at the moment of pronouncement, drugs are administered, perfluorocarbon is used to aid oxygenation during partial liquid breathing. Understand that if we used a defibillator at this point, or if the intention of the chest compressions was resuscitation, it would not necessarily be difficult to get independent cardiac cycle (heartbeat) going again in some cases; but that is not the goal.

Make no mistake, the brain will be injured (sometimes severely) when it finally gets to the glass transition temperature. Ischemic damage is the major concern; rapid CPS will minimize this, but depending on how long it takes for the patient to be pronounced, there can be considerable damage incurred during the “agonal” phase. The perfusion of the vitrification solution will also be damaging; it is modestly toxic, and the brain is particularly sensitive. If the patient has been ischemic for too long or the perfusion has otherwise gone poorly, areas of the brain may not be completely perfused, and thus will be subjected to freezing damage. Even in the case of a “perfect” perfusion, the dehydration of the brain causes small tears in the vasculature. When the patient is taken to LN2 temp (below Tg), fracturing occurs (similar to cracks on a windshield); the cracks are very small, and there is no loss of information (as there would be, say, with a cut or abrasion).

If all has gone well, then not only will the preserved brain possess viable neuronal tissue, it will also possess the fine ultrastructure responsible in which long-term memories are embedded.

The one who has typically “pronounced” the patient “dead” is a nurse in a hospice facility. They’re doing their job with an arbitrary set guidelines…but I prefer to let the ultimate prognosis rest with the health care professionals of the future.

Whatever the final result, they will have a second opinion on Kim’s outlook, and you can bet that it won’t be quite the same as the one first handed down.

SpiritShout, what you are saying….is ridiculous – in the end, objectively, what other practical means exists that would give the greatest possible chance at life again? Say what you will about cryonics, but I’d say it fills that position better then burial and certainly more then cremation.

The idea that somehow fundamentalists make more sense is silly – those with traditional viewpoints believe in a convoluted belief that death is a good thing because somehow after you die, you will still ‘live’ and actually achieve transcendence and so on.

Occum’s Razor and rationality however remind me that life is life and death is death….also reminding me that, again, at the end of the day, what is there?

I really don’t want to get into a viewpoint war, but SpiritShout, I must ask…objectively and practically, what else is there? Regardless of time, personal beliefs and so on, what actually exists in real life in today’s day to at least give some sort of chance at life again other then cryonics? I’m not talking about augmentation or any such future-tech which may or may not come in the coming decades, but right here and now today, that can plausibly help this poor girl with the time she has left.

I understand the power of faith and belief is the most powerful cornerstone in our human experience….but you can’t substitute faith for evidence – hope is a wonderful thing, but you need to recognize where to place it, or you are deluding yourself…faith for faith’s sake is a trap – faith and logic don’t have to be mutually exclusive, that’s childish thinking – that’s the idea that atheists are walking amoral brains and theists are irrational preachers….reality is somewhat different; don’t make the mistake of letting faith dull objective reasoning.

The sad part is…I wouldn’t be surprised if many tried to steer this girl away from cryonics through religion or other beliefs, and while their intentions are good and provide a sense of hope….objectively, they are steering her away from the best and really only practical means available today of at least having a chance at life again. Attempts to argue otherwise because evolve into a war of “My truth is better then your truth!”…there is something wrong when somehow more then one objective way of looking at things.

Please enlighten me – how is this a waste of time and money? You know of another practical means available in this day and age that offers a better chance of living again? That doesn’t involve replacing evidence with faith, and somehow doubly damns yet praises life by rationalizing/preaching death?

(Just great – this IS a viewpoint war >_>)

That’s all beside the point because she needs as much help as she can get. In general, if there is any reason why she isn’t receiving more attention, again, I feel it’s probably more because cryonics still isn’t a mainstream thing over what you feel for her looks.

Which is silly — until augmentations come around, it’s really the only last and final contingency for life; I certainly hope that some people are not donating simply because they disagree with the nature of cryonics: The girl’s life is what’s really important here.

We all have the best hopes for you, Kim.