Origin > The Singularity > Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
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    Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
by   Ray Kurzweil

In an evolutionary process, positive feedback increases order exponentially. A correlate is that the "returns" of an evolutionary process (such as the speed, cost-effectiveness, or overall "power" of a process) increase exponentially over time -- both for biology and technology. Ray Kurzweil submitted on essay based on that premise to Edge.org in response to John Brockman's question: "What's your law?"


Published on Edge.org and KurzweilAI.net Jan. 12, 2003

  • Evolution applies positive feedback in that the more capable methods resulting from one stage of evolutionary progress are used to create the next stage.  Each epoch of evolution has progressed more rapidly by building on the products of the previous stage. 

  • Evolution works through indirection: evolution created humans, humans created technology, humans are now working with increasingly advanced technology to create new generations of technology.  As a result, the rate of progress of an evolutionary process increases exponentially over time

  • Over time, the "order" of the information embedded in the evolutionary process (i.e., the measure of how well the information fits a purpose, which in evolution is survival) increases. 

    A comment on the nature of order.  The concept of the "order" of information is important here, as it is not the same as the opposite of disorder.  If disorder represents a random sequence of events, then the opposite of disorder should imply "not random."  Information is a sequence of data that is meaningful in a process, such as the DNA code of an organism, or the bits in a computer programNoise, on the other hand, is a random sequence.  Neither noise nor information is predictable.  Noise is inherently unpredictable, but carries no information.  Information, however, is also unpredictable.  If we can predict future data from past data, then that future data stops being information.  We might consider an alternating pattern ("0101010. . . .") to be orderly, but it carries no information (beyond the first couple of bits). 

    Thus orderliness does not constitute order because order requires information.  However, order goes beyond mere information.  A recording of radiation levels from space represents information, but if we double the size of this data file, we have increased the amount of data, but we have not achieved a deeper level of order. 

    Order is information that fits a purpose.  The measure of order is the measure of how well the information fits the purpose.  In the evolution of life-forms, the purpose is to survive.  In an evolutionary algorithm (a computer program that simulates evolution to solve a problem) applied to, say, investing in the stock market, the purpose is to make money.  Simply having more information does not necessarily result in a better fit.  A superior solution for a purpose may very well involve less data.

    The concept of "complexity" is often used to describe the nature of the information created by an evolutionary process.  Complexity is a close fit to the concept of order that I am describing, but is also not sufficient.  Sometimes, a deeper order – a better fit to a purpose – is achieved through simplification rather than further increases in complexity.  For example, a new theory that ties together apparently disparate ideas into one broader more coherent theory reduces complexity but nonetheless may increase the "order for a purpose" that I am describing.  Indeed, achieving simpler theories is a driving force in science.  Evolution has shown, however, that the general trend towards greater order does generally result in greater complexity.

    Thus improving a solution to a problem – which may increase or decrease complexity – increases order.  Now that just leaves the issue of defining the problem.  Indeed, the key to an evolution algorithm (and to biological and technological evolution) is exactly this: defining the problem. 

    We may note that this aspect of "Kurzweil's Law" (the law of accelerating returns) appears to contradict the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which implies that entropy (randomness in a closed system) cannot decrease, and, therefore, generally increases.  However, the law of accelerating returns pertains to evolution, and evolution is not a closed system.  It takes place amidst great chaos, and indeed depends on the disorder in its midst, from which it draws its options for diversity.  And from these options, an evolutionary process continually prunes its choices to create ever greater order.  Even a crisis, such as the periodic large asteroids that have crashed into the Earth, although increasing chaos temporarily, end up increasing – deepening – the order created by an evolutionary process. 

  • A primary reason that evolution – of life-forms or of technology – speeds up is that it builds on its own increasing order, with ever more sophisticated means of recording and manipulating information.  Innovations created by evolution encourage and enable faster evolution.  In the case of the evolution of life forms, the most notable early example is DNA, which provides a recorded and protected transcription of life's design from which to launch further experiments.  In the case of the evolution of technology, ever improving human methods of recording information have fostered further technology.  The first computers were designed on paper and assembled by hand.  Today, they are designed on computer workstations with the computers themselves working out many details of the next generation's design, and are then produced in fully-automated factories with human guidance but limited direct intervention. 

  • The evolutionary process of technology seeks to improve capabilities in an exponential fashion.  Innovators seek to improve things by multiples.  Innovation is multiplicative, not additive.  Technology, like any evolutionary process, builds on itself.  This aspect will continue to accelerate when the technology itself takes full control of its own progression. 

  • We can thus conclude the following with regard to the evolution of life-forms, and of technology:  the law of accelerating returns as applied to an evolutionary process: An evolutionary process is not a closed system; therefore, evolution draws upon the chaos in the larger system in which it takes place for its options for diversity; and evolution builds on its own increasing order.  Therefore, in an evolutionary process, order increases exponentially.

  • A correlate of the above observation is that the "returns" of an evolutionary process (e.g., the speed, cost-effectiveness, or overall "power" of a process) increase exponentially over time.  We see this in Moore's law, in which each new generation of computer chip (now spaced about two years apart) provides twice as many components, each of which operates substantially faster (because of the smaller distances required for the electrons to travel, and other innovations).  This exponential growth in the power and price-performance of information-based technologies – now roughly doubling every year – is not limited to computers, but is true for a wide range of technologies, measured many different ways. 

  • In another positive feedback loop, as a particular evolutionary process (e.g., computation) becomes more effective (e.g., cost effective), greater resources are deployed towards the further progress of that process.  This results in a second level of exponential growth (i.e., the rate of exponential growth itself grows exponentially).  For example, it took three years to double the price-performance of computation at the beginning of the twentieth century, two years around 1950, and is now doubling about once a year.  Not only is each chip doubling in power each year for the same unit cost, but the number of chips being manufactured is growing exponentially. 

  • Biological evolution is one such evolutionary process.  Indeed it is the quintessential evolutionary process.  It took place in a completely open system (as opposed to the artificial constraints in an evolutionary algorithm).  Thus many levels of the system evolved at the same time. 

  • Technological evolution is another such evolutionary process.  Indeed, the emergence of the first technology-creating species resulted in the new evolutionary process of technology.  Therefore, technological evolution is an outgrowth of – and a continuation of  –  biological evolution.   Early stages of humanoid created technology were barely faster than the biological evolution that created our species.  Homo sapiens evolved in a few hundred thousand years.  Early stages of technology – the wheel, fire, stone tools – took tens of thousands of years to evolve and be widely deployed.  A thousand years ago, a paradigm shift such as the printing press, took on the order of a century to be widely deployed.  Today, major paradigm shifts, such as cell phones and the world wide web were widely adopted in only a few years time. 

  • A specific paradigm (a method or approach to solving a problem, e.g., shrinking transistors on an integrated circuit as an approach to making more powerful computers) provides exponential growth until the method exhausts its potential.  When this happens, a paradigm shift (a fundamental change in the approach) occurs, which enables exponential growth to continue.

  • Each paradigm follows an "S-curve," which consists of slow growth (the early phase of exponential growth), followed by rapid growth (the late, explosive phase of exponential growth), followed by a leveling off as the particular paradigm matures. 

  • During this third or maturing phase in the life cycle of a paradigm, pressure builds for the next paradigm shift, and research dollars are invested to create the next paradigm.  We can see this in the enormous investments being made today in the next computing paradigm – three-dimensional molecular computing – despite the fact that we still have at least a decade left for the paradigm of shrinking transistors on a flat integrated circuit using photolithography (Moore's Law).  Generally, by the time a paradigm approaches its asymptote (limit) in price-performance, the next technical paradigm is already working in niche applications.  For example, engineers were shrinking vacuum tubes in the 1950s to provide greater price-performance for computers, and reached a point where it was no longer feasible to shrink tubes and maintain a vacuum.  At this point, around 1960, transistors had already achieved a strong niche market in portable radios. 

  • When a paradigm shift occurs for a particular type of technology, the process begins a new S-curve. 

  • Thus the acceleration of the overall evolutionary process proceeds as a sequence of S-curves, and the overall exponential growth consists of this cascade of S-curves. 

  • The resources underlying the exponential growth of an evolutionary process are relatively unbounded.

  • One resource is the (ever-growing) order of the evolutionary process itself.  Each stage of evolution provides more powerful tools for the next.  In biological evolution, the advent of DNA allowed more powerful and faster evolutionary "experiments."  Later, setting the "designs" of animal body plans during the Cambrian explosion allowed rapid evolutionary development of other body organs, such as the brain.  Or to take a more recent example, the advent of computer-assisted design tools allows rapid development of the next generation of computers.

  • The other required resource is the "chaos" of the environment in which the evolutionary process takes place and which provides the options for further diversity.  In biological evolution, diversity enters the process in the form of mutations and ever- changing environmental conditions.  In technological evolution, human ingenuity combined with ever-changing market conditions keep the process of innovation going. 

  • If we apply these principles at the highest level of evolution on Earth, the first step, the creation of cells, introduced the paradigm of biology.  The subsequent emergence of DNA provided a digital method to record the results of evolutionary experiments.  Then, the evolution of a species that combined rational thought with an opposable appendage (the thumb) caused a fundamental paradigm shift from biology to technology.  The upcoming primary paradigm shift will be from biological thinking to a hybrid combining biological and nonbiological thinking.  This hybrid will include "biologically inspired" processes resulting from the reverse engineering of biological brains.

  • If we examine the timing of these steps, we see that the process has continuously accelerated.  The evolution of life forms required billions of years for the first steps (e.g., primitive cells); later on progress accelerated.  During the Cambrian explosion, major paradigm shifts took only tens of millions of years.  Later on, Humanoids developed over a period of millions of years, and Homo sapiens over a period of only hundreds of thousands of years. 

  • With the advent of a technology-creating species, the exponential pace became too fast for evolution through DNA-guided protein synthesis and moved on to human-created technology.  Technology goes beyond mere tool making; it is a process of creating ever more powerful technology using the tools from the previous round of innovation, and is, thereby, an evolutionary process.  As I noted, the first technological took tens of thousands of years.  For people living in this era, there was little noticeable technological change in even a thousand years.  By 1000 AD, progress was much faster and a paradigm shift required only a century or two.  In the nineteenth century, we saw more technological change than in the nine centuries preceding it.  Then in the first twenty years of the twentieth century, we saw more advancement than in all of the nineteenth century.  Now, paradigm shifts occur in only a few years time. 

  • The paradigm shift rate (i.e., the overall rate of technical progress) is currently doubling (approximately) every decade; that is, paradigm shift times are halving every decade (and the rate of acceleration is itself growing exponentially).  So, the technological progress in the twenty-first century will be equivalent to what would require (in the linear view) on the order of 200 centuries.  In contrast, the twentieth century saw only about 20 years of progress (again at today's rate of progress) since we have been speeding up to current rates.  So the twenty-first century will see about a thousand times greater technological change than its predecessor. 

     

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    Mind·X Discussion About This Article:

    exponential growth
    posted on 01/12/2004 1:51 PM by tombronson

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    <quote>... the first step, the creation of cells, introduced the paradigm of biology. </quote>

    The replication of DNA pre-exists the cellular envelope. Most DNA in the biosphere exists outside such an envelope. This primitive form of life is the greater fraction of the flesh of Gaia.

    <quote> ... record the results ... </quote>
    It is possible that new protein codes are written to the gamete directly, but it so an as yet unperceived mechanism is involved. It is possible that the amino-acid liquid crystal closely adherent of the DNA and within which mRNA moves, is itself cognitive. If so, it could be that this entity uses the DNA to record successful protein designs, but that is capable of creative problem solving. If so, it is possible that a successful strategy is recorded and a 'courier' cell produced which physically moves to the gamete generator whereat the new information is thereafter included in the gametic haploid.

    <quote>
    ... the exponential pace became too fast for evolution through DNA-guided protein synthesis and moved on to human-created technology ...
    </quote>
    You imply that the evolution of life and machines are mutually displacive? I can't believe you mean that. Life-forms evolve whether man's machines exist or not. Is the 'exponential pace' an entity?

    Re: exponential growth
    posted on 01/12/2004 5:45 PM by /:setAI

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    the idea is that once Artificial Selection kicks in- Natural Selection becomes moot- because Artificial Selection is virtually INSTANTANEOUS and leads to TOTAL control of all genetic progression everywhere- where even "untouched" ecologies are guided toward a purpose or to see natural novelty and cultivate useful adaptations-
    purely "natural" unchecked generational evolution would/could no longer exist- again unless a specific ecology is artificially isolated for the purpose of exploring a slower generational evolution -

    Re: exponential growth
    posted on 01/13/2004 3:05 PM by tombronson

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    Your mindset appears to be applied far enough in the future that every life-form inside earth's atmosphere is engineered. Is this the impression you intend?

    untouched ecologies …



    You reference includes for instance sea-floor sponges? Marine bacteria? Fungi of the forest floor? You foresee the extinction of these classes of life-form? Or the pre-emption of ‘natural’ selection by ‘artificial’ selection? Universal pre-emption!?

    no longer exist


    You foresee that every genome will be engineered?

    Re: exponential growth
    posted on 01/13/2004 4:23 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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    You foresee that every genome will be engineered?


    What's the use of having a 'natural' genom, when an artificial is far better?

    Put aside, that they are no DNA genomes, but something better. From the point of view of the carrier, of course.

    Re: exponential growth
    posted on 09/03/2005 2:47 AM by thestoat

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    <quote>
    What's the use of having a 'natural' genom, when an artificial is far better?
    <quote>

    The term 'better' is subjective. If by better you mean faster then we already have that form of genetic change, its called radiation poisoning. The oldest form of genetic variation is damage to the genetic material. There is a school of thought that most of the major genetic changes in all 'natural' genoms have been produced by viral and bactirialogical gene sharing.

    Your hole assumption is that at some point an old development becomes useless. The fact is that newer developments just make the older developments less dominant. An example of this is in spite of the computer being the fastest technology for information trasmission through time we still use pens, pencils, quills, brushes and charcoal. The reason for this is that they remain the best tool for the job.

    The reality is some areas the ability to completely control a given genom will be useful but it will not do away with 'natral' genoms.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/13/2004 11:50 PM by TwinBeam

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    Kurzweil recognizes that particular technology trends go in S curves - slow start, rapid growth, slow finish (as other technologies surpass it).

    I wonder why he doesn't seem to raise the idea of an S-curve of S-curves, but assumes we'll hit a singularity and just head off the graph?

    Instead, we might be somewhere in the middle of an S-curve of S-curves - new science and technology coming fast and furious, but eventually slowing.

    The fact that there is common belief abroad that we're near a singularity might be taken to imply that we're actually approaching the middle of the SCoSC - which will look a lot like a singularity (unpredictably different from today) but technologically would represent the point where new technology introductions start to come slower.

    The difference? Depends on how close we are, and how steep the SCoSC is and how long we stay "in the middle" - we might emerge recognizably human, or nearly extinct and replaced by AI mind children, or somewhere in between.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/15/2004 1:06 AM by boris.k

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    The idea is that we'll discover/exploit new S-curves faster than the old ones expire. That has been the case so far, but can't be assumed to continue indefinitely,- ultimately it depends on the environment. Those mathematcal rules are meanngless per se, you have to see what they stand for in a real world.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/15/2004 7:17 PM by TwinBeam

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    It seems very likely that all improving trends and even trends of trends eventually hit limits and form an S-curve. Most tech trends have a long way to go - but some appear to be well past their steepest rate of improvement - e.g. terrestrial transportation technologies.

    If the singularity truly is an exponential increase in intelligence and capability, it goes to infinity as it approaches some date. But that also means that it never emerges on the other side of that date, which is a limit to on-going progress in itself!

    For example, maybe the human race will compress into a sphere of sentient neutronium and live out the rest of its existence - maybe billions of subjective years - before the end of the 21st century of realtime, and then simply vanish - extinct.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/17/2004 1:18 AM by boris.k

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    > It seems very likely that all improving trends > and even trends of trends eventually hit limits > and form an S-curve.

    Rather, it's plausible that *all* trends eventually end, including that of an S-curve, - we're talking about properties of an environment,
    of which we probably know an infinitesimal part.

    > If the singularity truly is an exponential
    > increase in intelligence and capability, it
    > goes to infinity as it approaches some date.
    > But that also means that it never emerges on
    > the other side of that date, which is a limit
    > to on-going progress in itself!

    I would hesitate to project any trend into infinity.




    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/15/2004 5:09 AM by radmail

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    Im glad Ray brought up the issue with the evolutionary algorithm. He says that the key is defining the problem. I think if the singularity is going to be a product of an EA then we still have alot of work in defining problems for the EA to solve. Unless of course some kind of powerful intelligence can be applied which can reason and solve the definitions, but for now we have to do the hard work.

    Also Ray says

    Biological evolution is one such evolutionary process. Indeed it is the quintessential evolutionary process. It took place in a completely open system (as opposed to the artificial constraints in an evolutionary algorithm). Thus many levels of the system evolved at the same time.


    This too i feel is important. The idea that the EA can only be based in a simulation of the environment. The artificial constraints of a simulation will always limit the growth of EA i think. We can always keep updating the simulation but this too is alot of hard work which is based on our scientific findings (for example in building a neural net involves describing neural functioning- which we have limited knowledge on) that seems outside the ability of EA plus Computer power alone.

    I guess the BIG question will be, 'will we have enough information for the simulation and definitions of problems so that EA can spark the big S within 20 years?'

    In either case i feel that EA's will continue to play an important part in furthering our knowledge at least for narrow functions...

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/16/2004 10:54 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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    I think, that with EA we will progress slowly at first. But faster and faster, since we will have a positive feedback and ever broader area of EA engagement.

    It was necessary however to come to the point, where the rock can finally move. That means, to have enough CPU power, that the game is not trivial anymore.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/17/2004 4:48 AM by radmail

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    I think, that with EA we will progress slowly at first. But faster and faster, since we will have a positive feedback and ever broader area of EA engagement.


    Agreed, Ray points this out

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/16/2004 12:58 PM by /:setAI

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    The idea that the EA can only be based in a simulation of the environment. The artificial constraints of a simulation will always limit the growth of EA i think.


    EA is only a simulation in a wholly linear digital computing system- HOWEVER- running in an ANALOG or massively-parallel digital network architecture EA would NOT be a simulation by definition- but an ACTUAL living/evolving ecology

    it is iomportant that people understand that when a computing substrate is capible of true system dynamics with feedback- that ACTUAL systems are cultivated and NOT simulations-

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/16/2004 6:31 PM by radmail

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    it is iomportant that people understand that when a computing substrate is capible of true system dynamics with feedback- that ACTUAL systems are cultivated and NOT simulations-


    ok thanks set, can you elaborate or suggest a good book or whatever

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/17/2004 4:59 AM by radmail

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    EA is only a simulation in a wholly linear digital computing system- HOWEVER- running in an ANALOG or massively-parallel digital network architecture EA would NOT be a simulation by definition- but an ACTUAL living/evolving ecology[/qoute]

    I think even in the digital sense the EA is an organism albeit a simulated software organism.

    With the M-PDNA can you define what you mean by living. Like most words it can have varying degree of implication.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/17/2004 4:59 AM by radmail

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    EA is only a simulation in a wholly linear digital computing system- HOWEVER- running in an ANALOG or massively-parallel digital network architecture EA would NOT be a simulation by definition- but an ACTUAL living/evolving ecology[/qoute]

    I think even in the digital sense the EA is an organism albeit a simulated software organism.

    With the M-PDNA can you define what you mean by living. Like most words it can have varying degree of implication.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/17/2004 5:03 AM by radmail

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    Oh, ballocks, shit, ballocks, dam quoting thing is screwin up again:



    >EA is only a simulation in a wholly linear digital computing system- HOWEVER- running in an ANALOG or massively-parallel digital network architecture EA would NOT be a simulation by definition- but an ACTUAL living/evolving ecology.

    I think even in the digital sense the EA is an organism albeit a simulated software organism.

    With the M-PDNA can you define what you mean by living. Like most words it can have varying degree of implication.

    Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/15/2004 8:24 AM by jdoeii

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    The first part of the article "A comment on the nature of order" is a dilettante attempt to reinvent the weel. There is no need to redefine "order", "information", "randomness" when they are already extremely well defined. Please get a book on Kolmogorov complexity or read something popular on the net.

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/15/2004 10:35 AM by boris.k

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    Kolmogorov complexity is better than Ray's speculations, but it's far from perfect. That complexity is defined as the length of the shortest descriptive program & the purpose is simple record compression. The problem is that the description language is not included in the definition & length of computation is ignored. For Ray (& for me) order is not simply compressability but environmental correspondence/predictiveness, the difference being that it shouldn't depend on the method of encoding/description.

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/16/2004 3:19 AM by jdoeii

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    That complexity is defined as the length of the shortest descriptive program

    About correct.

    the purpose is simple record compression.

    Correct, but not entirely. It's like saying that the purpose of phisics is to make a light bulb.

    The problem is that the description language is not included in the definition

    True, but it does not matter because the language has a finite complexity :-). It's just a constant factor.

    length of computation is ignored.

    It's true for the original studies. But other people study the computational requirements now. For example look up Juergen Schmidhuber work.

    For Ray (& for me) order is not simply compressability but environmental correspondence/predictiveness, the difference being that it shouldn't depend on the method of encoding/description.

    It does not except for a constant factor. Like in integration. Integral of x is 0.5*x^2 + CONST. The presence of the indefined CONST does not invalidate the 0.5*x^2 part.

    As for predictiveness, it's not so simple. Here is an example sequence: 2, 4, 6, 8. What's next? 10? Wrong. It's 34 because the sequence is
    n^4-10n^3+35n^2-48n+24 :-) (c) Schmidhuber

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/17/2004 5:45 AM by boris.k

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    An unusually meaningful conversation for this place:)

    >> length of computation is ignored.
    > It's true for the original studies. But other people study the computational requirements now. For example look up Juergen Schmidhuber work.

    Right, I did look at it before, but it didn't make much sense to me,- he concentrates on computation but ignores record compression, I think there should be a common denominator between the two,- indicating overall "cost".
    But it's a secondary issue.

    >> being that it shouldn't depend on the method of encoding/description.

    > It does not except for a constant factor. Like in integration. Integral of x is 0.5*x^2 + CONST. The presence of the indefined CONST does not invalidate the 0.5*x^2 part.

    By encoding I mean not only procedural language but also previous compression of the data set, which would reduce compressabilty but should not, theoretically, affect predictability. The simpliest example is digitization,- variables encoded as binary digits will be less compressible than those encoded as decimal digits.

    There must be encoding-neutral way to quantify similarity, initially between two inputs, which would also indicate predictability of subsequent inputs.

    > As for predictiveness, it's not so simple. Here is an example sequence: 2, 4, 6, 8. What's next? 10? Wrong. It's 34 because the sequence is
    n^4-10n^3+35n^2-48n+24 :-) (c) Schmidhuber

    It's actually both, but can you quantify which pattern is stronger? :)

    Regards!
    Boris

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/17/2004 12:10 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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    but can you quantify which pattern is stronger


    The one which is simpler according to Kolmogorov's is always the right solution. If both otherwise fits, of course.

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/18/2004 2:14 AM by boris.k

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    OK, that was a dumb question, they both give a perfect match.
    Also, my previous post was misleading, my real problem with compression as a measure of match is that it's asymmetrical. Given two comparands A & B,
    the simplest compression by subtraction can be either A - mod(B-A), or B - mod(A-B), which are likely to be different. Obviously, a match is what's common between the comparands, so it shouldn't depend on the direction.

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/19/2004 10:30 AM by jdoeii

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    <p>I think there is a mixup between complexity and compressibility. Kolmogorov complexity and compressibility as in WinZip are not the same. For example take number PI (3.14159...). Its Kolmogorov complexity is very low because the program which calculates PI is short. On the other hand the numeric representation of PI is uncompressible because it appear random.</p>
    <p>As for the example with sequence, the simplicity of one explanation vs the complexity of the other is relative. It's possible to construct a space where the complex formula would appear simple.</p>

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/19/2004 10:51 AM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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    On the other hand the numeric representation of PI is uncompressible because it appear random.



    No it doesn't. The creating algorithm is number Pi - compressed!

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/19/2004 4:18 PM by Tomaz_(Thomas)_Kristan

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    Wallis.exe is something like selfextracting file for Pi.txt!

    Compress ratio is huge.

    Re: Ray needs a book on Kolmogorov complexity
    posted on 01/20/2004 2:57 AM by boris.k

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    <p>I think there is a mixup between complexity and compressibility. Kolmogorov complexity and compressibility as in WinZip are not the same. For example take number PI (3.14159...). Its Kolmogorov complexity is very low because the program which calculates PI is short. On the other hand the numeric representation of PI is uncompressible because it appear random.</p>

    PI is a single variable, it's only represented by a sequence of digits for compression on the first place. It's length is not complexity but precision. Intra-variable inter-digit compression is usually unproductive, it doesn't operate in spatio-temporal continuum.

    <p>As for the example with sequence, the simplicity of one explanation vs the complexity of the other is relative. It's possible to construct a space where the complex formula would appear simple.</p>

    Except that you have to include the definition of that space, which would put that formula back to where it belongs.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/21/2004 2:32 PM by mgokey2

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    IMHO, Ray Kurzweil makes the same common mistake that most forecasters make. That is, taking a trend or pattern seen in some slice of data to its extreme conclusion. He attempts to avert us from seeing this by explaining that paradigm shifts allow continued evolutionary processes to accelerate on a roughly exponential curve when one views progress with historical perspective. He concludes that this will continue indefinitely and eventually to a singularity. He is bold enough to call this a law - the Law of Accelerating Returns.

    What does a singularity even mean in this context? You can't make sense of such a thing - it is a paradox by itself. Laws break down at a singularity. They are undefined by definition. They cannot be described because they cannot ever truly be reached.

    But how does he conclude, given the subjective nature of the quantities attached to progress, that this exponential curve is asymptotic? Can he predict with this curve the approximate timeframe the singularity may be reached? Instead could it not continue infinitely without reaching a limit? Or could it be part of an S-curve itself? Might there be other forces at work that will cause this curve to flatten out or even ultimately be limited by a horizontal asymptote? Perhaps the curve when inspected closely is not smooth at all and contains hills and valleys of significant magnitudes. Couldn't there be a hiccup or two in the evolutionary process? I think if you evaluated the past honestly you would see many of these hiccups in history. How do we know we're not heading for one right now?

    IMHO, there are way too many unknowns to make a prediction like he does, let alone claim it to be a law.
    Many other possibilities could happen. Its possible, for instance, that we (human race) will not see and correct the folly of our cancerous growth and consumption of the Earth's resources early enough to avert disaster. Its possible that this could throw us back 100's of years requiring us to rebuild up to the advanced level of technology we enjoy today but in sustainable ways. Its possible that we will enter space and embark on colonizing Mars, mining asteroids, and other space exploration and colonization. These activities, although technologically advanced, would put us back into a physical frontier where we just don't have the luxury of chasing surreal disembodied AI or virtual environments, having to use our ingenuity to survive instead. Its possible that some of the imagined technology is simply not feasible at all. Its possible that an asteroid will wipe out life on the earth as we know it (again). One could go on and on.

    Back to the topic. So what would make the evolutionary process an S-curve? I have an idea. I call it the Law of Limiting Intelligent Knowledge Absorption. It applies only to technological evolution. It states that as knowledge increases the ability to absorb and apply that knowledge (needed for continued evolutionary progress) by intelligent sentient beings reaches a threshold associated with natural limitations inherent in the current physical embodiment and context of said intelligence. This acts as an opposing force to the law of accelerating returns.

    I believe we are reaching this threshold in our current human form, our brains, human nature, our societies, policies, law and environmental disposition. And due to this, it will require a much longer time than Ray imagines- if at all - to move from our constraining biological form to new forms that can continue the exponential potential of evolutionary progress in a new S-curve. During this time, technological progress will continue, but not at the exponential rates required to create the technology and societal changes outlined by Ray in his books by the mid to late 21st century. I believe that due to this growth slowdown he underestimates the difficulty in attaining the kinds of technology and associated societal changes he describes. This is my optimistic outlook. Ray's is certainly fanciful and imaginative, but I don't believe immortality is just around the corner.

    Matt

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/23/2004 11:33 PM by poster150

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    It all comes down to whether or not we can understand our own brains. If we figure out the brain, we can figure out how to improve it. If we improve our intelligence, then we won't hit that slow period.

    Your guess is as good as mine if we'll figure it out. But I think that's all you're really disagreeing on with Ray.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/24/2004 12:33 AM by poster150

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    To correct myself, the other possibility for an increase in intelligence is if we create AI.

    I suppose there is no guarantee that either of those 2 will happen. But if we can control intelligence, then we've crossed into new territory. Then Kurzweil's law really kicks in. Intelligence creates increasing intelligence.

    It took the universe billions of years to evolve to life. But once life was created, at least on this planet, it took off. Similarly, it took life a long time to evolve to intelligence. If Kurzweil is correct, then we may be getting close to the launching point.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/25/2004 11:26 AM by nitemri

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    The study of the brain is about to undergo a pradigm shift of its own. Do a search on magnetic nanoparticles. Imagine being able to design a tool that can get into the most fundamental processes of the brain and allow them to be visualized. As easy as flourescent antibody studies, but in a live, intelligent brain that can cooperate with the experimenter. Minimal health risk, maybe even eventually realtime 2 way communication.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/25/2004 2:35 PM by radmail

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    The MRI growth is just amazing! It can not be ignored that MRI is part of the exponential trend thus will continue to shift paridigms. Soon the brain biophysical interactions will be broken down into raw computation! This will then be simulated, added to a physical functionally identical brain- THEN STRONG AI... SINGULARITY... and the rest is history... or will be

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/26/2004 4:26 PM by mgokey2

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    This thread is discussing the technology aspect of the evolutionary growth. I was trying to introduce policy, human nature, society, and environmental context factors.

    As long as we're still human flesh and blood, we still must be born and raised and educated to the current level of common knowledge. Individuals still need to specialize in order to get to the leading edge of a field. This still requires 20-40 years per individual to do. Ethics and politics, law and order still control society. Societal norms do not change at evolutionary speeds like technology does. Technology requires huge amounts of capital and natural resources. What I am saying is these inherent factors related to our current physical reality and environmental/social context are beginning to limit the evolutionary growth themselves.

    Try to imagine exponential technological progress resulting in these new paradigms on the order of every year, month, week, day, or hour? It is not possible given our current form and physical reality. Generations of people are required for massive changes. My thought is we are just now or just have started reaching the point where these factors are making a difference and slowing down paradigm shifts. Also that if we "move" to a new form of intelligence that it will have similar limitations inherent within it but on a different level.

    Assume for the moment in the next 30 years, the technology for brain scanning and emulation is achieved to the degree needed to copy an intelligence to a computer. What would happen? There would be much debate over the ethics involved and there would be as many or more people that would simply flat out reject the idea of being instantiated in a computer as much as accept it. Laws may restrict its use. The rich early adopters would be needed to begin building the infrastructure needed to make it a common available option. How long would this take? Would masses of people accept it ever? Where will the raw materials needed for millions and billions of new sentient beings come from? How would this help the human condition and the planet?

    Personally, I tend to think that a more likely evolutionary scenario is that we over time slowly integrate technology and biology into an evolving humankind that will for 100s if not 1000s of years still bear resemblance to our DNA based roots (like you can find vestiges of DOS in Windows XP code). This is commonly referred to as the post-human or trans-human movement. We will be forced to explore space/colonize other planets so we can continue our population growth and resource utilization (its all just a big pyramid scheme ;-)) This seems a much more realistic prediction than that of a an un-explainable singularity...

    Matt

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/26/2004 8:21 PM by radmail

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    AI is likely to continue to evolve dispite human politics. Who do you think has the power to stop human research globally?- the singularity is going to happen if it is at all possible. Yes many may turn their backs on this, but this does not mean that others wont because Government says so. There is far to much financial incentive to continue progressing technology as fast as possible, companies behind in the game go bust. Survival of the fittest, and once the ball is in motion theres no going back. Whos going to pull the plug on autonamous strong AI? If we try well probably get our arses kicked! Watch Terminator 1, 2 and 3 for more information..

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/25/2004 2:15 PM by herman

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    Dear Matt
    Evolution IS exponential. I know what you mean with stagnation: Why has there been a standstill of 1000 years in the Midle ages. The hellenistic civilization was only a few hundred years away from its industrial revolution, as we were at the beginning of the renaissance, why has it stopped. Even much earlier: The brain of stenonychosaurus could learn as fast as that of a ramapithecus. Who knows how close some creatures living just before the Permian mass extinction were to hominide intelligence? There have been many general s-curves in the history of evolution. But why?
    Because (don't laugh) an exponential curve in the natural world is different from a mathetical one: unforseen shit can happen. The curve in the cretacious was so extremely flat that a big asteroid had time enough to strike. No dinosauroid was enough developed to go in space and prevent it from happening.
    A big asteroid strikes once in 100 million years. So it must happen in this century, or we blow it out of the sky. The chance that this happens is so small, that I don't think, Matt, that you can't integrate this event in your evolutionary model.
    Why has technological evolution slowed down after the golden age of hellenism? Because only a comparatively minor military conflict or a famine was enough to unbalance a dawning civilization. Nowadays, it takes a lot more to create such a general s-curve. You would reply: But the ability to unbalance civilization has also evolved.
    I know. We have enough nuclear weapons to destroy us, but will we do it? So many years of cold war didn't lead to global destruction, the amount of nuclear weapons will be reduced to zero in a few decenia. North Korea can launch only a few rockets, whereafter it would be immediately and totally destroyed.

    So If the evolution of technolgy will slow down, it won't be due to meteors or nukes.

    I believe mankind in general has become a lot wiser than 1000 years ago when a certain pope ordered a theological scolar to calculate how mant angels could fit on a pin's head. This is no joke! We have the wisdom to handle dangerous technologies. Accidents will happen, but on a global scale they will be minor nuisances.


    Face it: Two thousand years ago, a delay lasted 1000 years, now a delay lasts 10 years. The singularity will happen in this century and we will have to face it.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/26/2004 4:28 PM by mgokey2

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    Its debateable whether we are wiser or not...

    What is the singularity? How do we know the exponential curve is asymptotic?

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/26/2004 5:23 PM by herman

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    The singulaity is the stage when the pace of technological evolution accelerates to infinity.

    About the exponentiality: If nothing unforeseen would happen (fall of the roman empire, the planetary collision at the end of the cretacious,..., we would look at a smooth exponential curve.

    Ray Kurzweil once said (I think) that when the curve of evolution enters the bent of the knee (just before it goes up rapidly. This started at the dawn of the industrial revolution), there's virtually nothing that can stop it. Everyone sees how much the world has changed in the last two hundred years.


    Thetime needed for an increase in knowledge and complexity from Leonardo da vinci's models to a stealth bomber is 500 years. The same progress will be witnessed in only 20 years. Believe me everything will go bananas very soon. And if things go wrong, it will at least be interesting.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/26/2004 8:45 PM by mgokey2

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    I didn't mean what is the singularity? I meant what _is_ the singularity. I know the technical theoritical definition. BTW, a singularity in the mathematical sense can only be reached when there is an approaching limit in the function. What I am asking about the exponential growth is not whether it is exponential but whether it is asymptotic and therefore approaches a limit and therefore a singularity. I don't think the data is good enough to predict this. The singularity in Ray's predictions is perhaps a misnomer. He just means when the evolutionary progress reaches a certain mystical threshold of steepness. But getting back to my question. Describe the singularity - what does it really mean? what does it imply for the human race or sentient race that reaches it? what does it imply for the universe? Can you really put any meaning to such a thing? Rules break down at a singularity. I don't believe it will come.

    Matt

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/27/2004 1:45 AM by TwinBeam

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    If we could aim a camera ahead to a singularity in progress, it wouldn't necessarily look like a war had struck, or all the people disappeared - though it might. It might look superficially normal or even utopian.

    Imagine an AI no cleverer than a smart human - but cheaply duplicated a billion times and working 24-7 for pennies of electricity a day, running the world economy very efficiently. No one has to work, everyone gets an equal share of near infinite choices of consumer goods.

    But the truth is that humanity is economically redundant, and people start to wonder if the AIs might decide to eliminate that inefficiency...

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/27/2004 3:50 AM by radmail

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    But getting back to my question. Describe the singularity - what does it really mean?


    What kind of meaning are you looking for- shit happens- is that good enough? How about- continuation of technological growth at a faster and faster rate that is well documented with Moores Law as well as all the other paridigms behind itsuch as vacuum tube computer and transistor machines- its quite easy to see that this is likely to continue for some time with the predicted 3d chips using nanotubes etc. As for the limit thing you mentioned earlier, i have not read anything describing a limit on technological growth once the singularity is ignited. The only limit Ray describes is the limit imposed by a limit of matter and energy availiable- im not sure if this restricts technological evolution- i dont really care at this point either.

    what does it imply for the human race or sentient race that reaches it?


    again, i dont know what you are seeking here... read the Kurzweil stuff all over this forum and critise whatever you feel is wrong or produced a false implication or lack of one... It seems clear to me that it implies a merge between human and computer tech/nanotech, upgrading ourselves... you know post human-post post human etc. Ray makes it clear that our human quality is maintained, that is our emotions, consciousness etc i guess...

    what does it imply for the universe?


    saturation of intelligence-there an essay on this read that first...

    Can you really put any meaning to such a thing? Rules break down at a singularity. I don't believe it will come.

    What meaning, you mean like a meaning of life or something? Do you have a meaning, a purpose? Ray bases his predictions of what he observes from the facts of exponential growth, how does this break down Laws of the universe, but dont tell me, point this out to subtillion who knows the universe like its his left hand, if he says its not feasible then i'll agree with you then...

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/27/2004 7:18 AM by radmail

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    BTW, Sorce theory says the universe is infinate

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/27/2004 12:36 PM by jontait

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    BTW, Sorce theory says the universe is infinate


    Glaring hole in an otherwise compelling theory if you ask me.

    Re: Kurzweil’s Law (aka “the law of accelerating returns”)
    posted on 01/27/2004 12:59 PM by mgokey2

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    I don't know whether sorce theory is respected or not as a "theory of everything" by physicists, but there is no shortage of these competing theories to choose from. I also don't know if the universe is infinite. I suspect it is not. I think the universe is finite and discrete at its most fundamental level.

    But say the universe is infinite; the singularity is when the evolutionary curve becomes infinite; and it implies the saturation of the universe. This is contradictory/paradoxical:

    -If the universe is infinite it can never be saturated with anything, let alone a single amorphous sentient mind.
    -If the evolutionary curve steepness is infinite time will have stopped in the instant the singularity is reached in a race to fill the infinite universe with a infinite intelligence.
    -If the universe is finite, but the evolutionary progress is, it will be instantaneously saturated and ended at same moment.
    -If the universe if finite and the curve is very very very steep but not infinite and still exponentially growing, the universe will be saturated in a very short duration of time.

    Doesn't this sound like fantasy? It does to me. This is what I mean when I say meaning and logic breaks down at a singularity. This is why I firmly believe no such singularity is coming or will ever come let alone in the next century. One cannot take a trend (whether it is linear or exponential or any other curve) and blindly apply it out into the future.

    Matt