Cryonics movement in Brevard soldiers on after loss of key figure
September 14, 2012

Fred and Linda Chamberlain, October 2011. Fred’s t-shirt reads: Mind uploading — the ultimate out of body experience! (Credit: Giulio Prisco)
The cryonics movement in Brevard lost one of its guiding lights earlier this year — at least temporarily, Florida Today reports..
Fred Chamberlain III was declared legally dead at about 12:50 a.m. on March 22 at a Scottsdale, Ariz., hospice.
Moments later, a specially trained team from Alcor began preparing Chamberlain — who founded Alcor with his wife, Linda, in 1972 in Southern California — for his next destination: a gleaming silver canister filled with liquid nitrogen, where he would be kept until the cryonics movement that he was instrumental in building developed the technology to allow him a new life.
Mindfiles
At Terasem, a key initiative called Cybernetic Beingness Revival, or CyBeRev, involves people making “mindfiles” — gigabytes of spoken memories, photos, videos — that could then be installed in some sort of avatar.
Linda and Fred Chamberlain, who came to Melbourne in 2009, would for years talk for two hours most every morning, recording what they said. Those conversations are now part of their mindfiles.
Cryonics has provided hope for Linda Chamberlain, a self-described atheist since before she came to the movement, that traditional religions did not. “If you could only see nothing but a horrible future, why would you even want to be part of it?” she said.
It has provided her solace in accepting the loss, at least for now, of her beloved husband, though the pain is still acute. “It’s still very hard when your best friend, your lover, is suddenly out of your life for a while,” she said at one point in our conversation, crying for a moment. “You have that feeling of sadness about being separated, and that doesn’t change.”
Cryonics also has given Chamberlain the pleasure of envisioning, and believing in, what will come: a continuation of her life with Fred and others, in ways and in places that will elevate their time to something beyond just existing.
“I’d like to be able to have a body which is changeable, which you can do with nanobot swarms,” she said. “If I want to ski on Mars, I would have a very durable avatar which will allow me to do that. If I want to go swimming in the oceans of Europa, I can have a body like a killer whale or one of the life forms that might be in the oceans of Europa.”
Comments (81)
by Dayhawk
I am not for any causes… I am for my self Iook for a time when I have complete control of my DNA where I live as long as I want and still look great and feel great..
by Bri
@ Marco Marin, I almost never direct my attention to one person. You have strong ideas, why obfuscate? Are you afraid they wouldn’t be received well? Who are the pigs that insist on being eaten, that you refer to? As a child I used to have a recurring dream where I was told that I swim faster than the waters. We are entering the age of Aquarius and I know what I see ahead. What do you see?
by Mr.X
I see my laptop, too many tabs are open.I’never get work done that way.
If your dream means something, does my old dream of dying in various way mean something?’ll interpret it: I will live forever, entire lifespans, that’s what the death stands for.Just kidding.
Everyone has strong ideas.
by Bjimmer Bell
~
The “you” that is sitting there reading this was nothing but some crops in a field a year or so ago.
The “you” that was “you” a year or so ago is nothing but some feces down a sewer today.
Your body and brain completely regenerate themselves atom by atom, cell by cell, organ by organ 100% on approximately an annual cycle.
In a few decades, the advancing DNA knowledge, via such things as stopping Telomere shortening, will allow that natural cycle to continue on for an indefinite period of time.
“Death” will only occur from sudden massive trauma (do try to avoid activities that require you to say things like: “Here, hold my beer and watch this.” Or angering large motorcycle gangs in rowdy bars by shouting out things like: “Harley Motorcycles are for pussys”, etc, etc.
And the leaping out of aircraft wearing a cheap parachute.
Now for those of you that think there is something mysterious about the brain, and that you will only persevere as some kind of Zombie, go back and read things that have written decades ago, and see if you can’t instantly identify yourself as the writer, even though you flushed the actual “you” that actually wrote the words down the toilet several tens of “you” ago.
After all of that Happy, Happy, Happy news, there is one little bit of bad news.
It will cost something to have yourself regenerated (the amount depending on how thoroughly the Hells Angels motorcycle gang wiped the barroom floor with your dumb ass), so do try to put some money aside.
And the potential regeneration team will likely only want to regenerate people they like, so try to be a good person and make people want to keep you around for a while longer.
~
by Mr.X
“Go back and read things that have written decades ago.” Do you mean really old authors?Jk.
” And see if you can’t instantly identify yourself as the writer, even though you flushed the actual “you” that actually wrote the words down the toilet several tens of “you” ago.”
Hm, I already read some of the stuff I wrote years ago.At first I thought: Now that’s a real i****. Then I saw my (nick)name.Feelings of guilt and shame, coupled with the vow to not write anything that others could possibly read.Of course, I knew that I wouldn’t keep that promise.
“I didn’t notice it back then.In all likelyhood I am still very dumb.”
I ask the opinion of a certain family member: “You are worse today, way worse.Could you please lend me 5 €?” Me:”Of course.Don’t eat all of it.”
Ps: Your story depends on your axioms, you could see yourself as information pattern expressed in matter.That way, you’d still have continuity.
by godot
You proclaim, “your body fully regenerates itself, atom by atom…on approximately an annual basis.” I don’t see how that is possible. Can you cite a reputable reference? While many types of cell reproduce and slough off old copies, some — most notably neurons — do not. I am unaware of any autopoietic mechanism of the human body which operates on either the atomic or the organ scale as you state. Probabilities being what they are, I find it very unlikely that the Brownian motion of diffusion would cause the proper type of individual new atom to substitute for each original atom in a particular individual one of my cells in a year, let alone my entire brain. What are you talking about???
by Bri
Again, whether you want to believe me or not, I live with psychic phenomenon. It justices my sense of the reality we are in very different than your experiences. My business associate needed to talk to a decorator that he was working with recently. The decorators office said he was on vacation. When he told me, I said he’s out in the Hamptons and he’s working. Later in the week a contractor who hates this decorator, came into our shop. In the conversation he said he had been working with the decorator in the Hamptons at exactly the time I said he was there. It doesn’t happen to me every day, but when I see I know what I see. So what is seeing? I’ve thought about this for most of life! We are spirits, we are not our bodies. We identify with our bodies. Eastern religion answers the question I have the best. Religion is very independent to your belief system!
by Marcos Marin
Who are you replying to, Bri? mr.x, me, giulio, nobody?
You’d be asking to much of us if you expect us to psych it.
by Bri
I don’t know which of my coments you are referring to. I’m a transhumanist to, but I don’t think we are close enough to be credible to the masses yet. I don’t see a reason why to convert or explain our beliefs. Anyone can respond to these statements. No need to psych it out.
by Marcos Marin
I’m referring to the one I clicked “reply to”, just like you just did with mine. (dont they appear indented on your screen, below the post you are replying to?)
However in your previous post you did not click any “reply to”, you typed directly in the “new post” box. And yet you seemed to be referring to someone or something on another conversation.
This changes the context of what you might mean, it’s not about who can or cannot reply to it, it’s about what s/he would be replying to, which then became hard to guess. :-)
by Marcos Marin
The editor thought that my explanation of indentation or why I couldn’t figure out who you replied to, was somehow a personal attack against you.
Im really sorry you need such treatment. :-(
by Marcos Marin
oh.. it came back ;-) the gods are listening, ain’t? Mwahaha
by Bri
I’m curious, how old are you? I answered your question in relation to who the post was directed to. I asked what aspect of my post was affecting you. That’s what’s meant by ” I don’t know which of my comment you are referring to” if I meant which post I would have said which post. I’m trying to bring it back on to the topic at hand. I’m trying to be polite. You hide your opinions in poetry. That and your excessive use of unrelated issuesakes me think you are young. If this was a boxing match, which is a civil test of prowess, you through a lot of punches, but you dont land any blows. Take time, think it through, try to remain on topic. Thats the center of the ring. Don’t climb on the ropes. If you get tired, try not to hold on to me. Either quit or I’ll push you away and clock you, like I just did.
by Marcos Marin
Wouldn’t this mean your post/comment would have 2 or more independent points? Anyway, unrelated issue, the problem is human defensive tendencies. If you are unsure this is a boxing match why are you already in the ring and admitting you “just did” something our dear editor should so ‘impartially’ ‘edit’?
by Mr.X
Deep inside us almost everyone has a tendency to think himself smart and good, and virtuos and etc.Which is mostly untrue (speaking for myself).
If we take ourselves too serious as a consequence of that, we allow ourselves to be hurt by others, for whatever reason, and do so unconsciously.
If that happens, we often get defensive, and start lashing out.This insight may not be accurate, but as a troll I can say you it works wonders in practice.Arousing these emotions is our bread and butter.
Anyway, if someone here engages in ad hominem, does it really matter to the target?It should not.
Ps: Anyone clocks me, and I’ll Glock him ;)
by Marcos Marin
hehe, yes, quite accurate. attachment, egocentrism, many names for this. Problem is, language is utterly imperfect (says a lot about the bible being the exact word of god, huh? ;-)) so, even if one is those.. perfectly virtuous, perfectly smart, perfectly good.. just like me, externally it would still have to go through a few “hoops” to minimize and then inevitably correct those misunderstandings. Though of course being perfectly smart means many times you can side step much of this by installing subconscious programs which will “uncompress” and run to explain themselves and data around it. It is literally a “spell” ;-) but in effect you are still error correcting for the decoherence of language imperfection compared to the perfection of your smarts, the bigger the gap the more you perceive it, there is no way around it.
by Bri
I thought I was clear. It was open ended. In my post I present many ideas. If I wanted to direct it to you I would have. Amara is trying to keep the posts on target to the topic, not addressed to a person with nothing but sarcasm. You can say anything you like in my eyes. Your sarcasm shows hostility and your posts are not related to the article, so it’s a personal attack. I really think it’s more important to talk on topic, but if you want to go off topic, I’m not afraid of what you might say. It will show your true intentions and the level of your thoughts, good or bad. Honestly if you gave me every kind of insult, I would deflect it. I know how the indents work and the reply to this comment works, it seem your having trouble understanding it andy reply.
by Marcos Marin
I’m glad you are growing, now my comments are once again free from so long censorship. Thank you. =)
I apologize, I was genuinely concerned that your browser wasn’t rendering styles properly which would generate confusion, I did not mean to imply you did not know, much less wouldn’t be capable of knowing, any thing. I even went out of my way down to Samsara try and word it as kindly as I could =) and also the effects it would have on comprehension.
It is joyful both to realize how attachment impedes our ‘abilities’.
by Bri
Think of it this way. I’ve written about my perspective on many occasions. Many people have questions in relation to consciousness. I’m not responding to anyone in particular, but to many statements made in these posts. I don’t follow any particular religious system. I think they are all flawed. Ultimately something happens to us when we die. Nobody knows for sure. If you choose to be frozen it is based on your hopes that you can be restored. I believe that is possible, but it may not be as simple as reanimation. It’s a question that many people ask. Will it be the same me. It may be that the you passes on, and a copy of you, like an identical clone that could exist along side the real you at the same time. By this I mean the technology could get so good at replicating you and your memories that their could be many separate you’s. Like in the movie Multiplicity. Everybody might think it’s you that has been restored after cryonic preservation, but it may be another you and you might have passed on long ago. Can the you that is experiencing today be brought back. I believe it can, but it mitt not be as easy as you think. Does that help answer your question? I post statements and opinions fairly broadly at times. Not directed to any particular person unless I say so.
by Marcos Marin
I wasn’t referring to the content of your posts, at all…
But since your first words suggest us bake our noodle why wait said future we can bake it right here, right now.
Why am I here inside?
Why are you there,
not in my mind? (thankfully)
Once you solve that,
No need no mind file.
by Bri
I encourage dialogs. I certainly can’t say what is right or wrong. I relate my perspective to add another element to the debate. Nothing That i have posted is really new. Others have brought it up before, just not in the context of these posts, otherwise I would have thought it redundant. I appreciate others points of view, even if I strongly disagree. Let’s face it, we all have to live together. Mutual respect is morally right, otherwise we’d be pooping and pissing all over each other. Anyway life would be boring if we all just nodded in agreement. It all adds color or flavor to the world.
by Marcos Marin
You’d be surprised… if you could see,
what people are swimming in…
You are right
so let us disagree,
you,
me,
and a very dismissed
pig who to be
eaten would insist.
by Bri
Fascinating obscurity.
by Bri
As a child I found it interesting that nobody realized that everything in the ocean swims in it’s own poop and piss. It’s not just a matter of perspective, it’s a way of life.
by Bri
I can’t resist one more. Everything preys upon something else…… Om Nama Shivia. Me personally I’m a Follower of Vishnu.
by Mr.X
According to some we are all one.That way it would not matter.
by Katherine MacLean (old science fiction writer and research fan
Intelligent comments by all. I personally believe that every cell is alive and aware. When you accidentally mash your thumb, your whole body and mind feels the pain, You hop around making noise about it. Your body is you. and you are your thumb for that moment..
The most plausible basis for ethics and kindness is the belief that at death the barriers between individuals dissolve and we pool memory and identity . Justice is that we get back every joy we ever gave to others and that we must first be willing to experience every pain and humiliation we handed out to any person child or animal. It,s not God’s punishment and reward,– it is our own.
That is one future to choose. Another is to live forever in an improved body as an edited personality without hatred, revenge and blind rage– all old unprofitable cruelty edited out of our instincts. Without that editing humanity is not worth saving.
I.m preaching and apologize It will probable be edited out—-but I have to live by some set of rules when the current set of rules being offered is blind greed and dishonesty, cornering the income of millions when one billionaire can only eat off one plate, ordering service when the thrill of playing sports is no better than the thrill of skill at team work. building on Mars or the moon or Arizona Irrigating deserts, or colonizing the bottom of the sea.Or making love personally in ones own sweaty body. Who needs avatars?
by Editor
“I.m preaching and apologize It will probable be edited out”
We only block (not edit) posts with personal attacks. Preach on, I’m lovin’ it….!
by Bri
Personal attacks are allowed. I can say any of these statements. You’ve missed the point. Your research is flawed your making a mistake. The ethics that we use to differentiate in personal attacks is foul language that serves to only insult. Gray areas abound. I can say your reasoning is foolish, but I can’t just say your a fool. I can say your research shares the same stupidity that other researches have, but I can’t say your stupid. Me personally, I think everything should be fair game. If someone argument is based on slander, it has no bassis. If you pepper your attacks with obscenities, others in the group should state their views towards them. If I want the queen of England to visit me in my poop paradise, she will say, not until you clean up the place. As editor of this website you mediate the rules as stated by your employer. If Mark Unlevened Bread ( Levine: the bread of haste, and not baked enough for my tastes) or Shawn Insanity ( Hanity) were to post on this web page, in the manner that they talk to their guests, we would find them extremely rude and crude. Very quickly we would pounce on them and set them strate as to how to comport themselves.
by Mr.X
That’s the reason I hide them in loooong rants.So far, that strategy/tactics worked well.Jk.
Ps: I noticed not many people offered they condolences or said things as RIP or something like that.Do you all believe he’ll be “ressurected?”
by melajara
I didn’t offer my condolences but I meant it. Mr Chamberlain founded a worthy institution IMHO and truly deserve to be the first to profit from it.
I’m just regretting that there is not a more focused and rational approach in cryopreservation research. Part of the problem is that so few people, so far, really believe in the rationale or the real chances of this kind of research and then we have a “chicken and egg” situation to kick up the research.
To compensate for the lack of resources, (same problem for fighting aging which suffers from similar reservations from mainstream scientists), we should plan a very rational approach to maximize the bang for the buck. So why not concentrate the current research and financing on simpler but essential building blocks, targeting simpler organisms or simpler human “parts”.
For example, we know for quite a long time that the problem is solved for human zygotes, but is it for blastulas? Morulas? Gastrulas?
When such research becomes really unethical in the process of human embryo development?
Assuming this limit is consensually agreed, then transpose the research on animal embryos or tissues grown from stem cells.
A very potent milestone in cryology could have been the ability to cryopreserve and “ressuscite” complete organs, alleviating the dependency on donors by buffering the offer against the demand.
This kind of research should have been massively funded already 40 years ago. Has it be? Hardly.
But now such a victory from cryo research would be less relevant as the best pathway for organs availability is regrown organs obtained from autologous stem cells cultures dispersed on a biodegradable scaffold by a process of 3D printing.
Even so this regenerative process takes time. Thus, indeed, cryology remains an essential building block in future mainstream regenerative medicine, as everybody should have organ duplicates stored somewhere, just in case of an emergency.
I’m not seeing a multi-pronged coordinated research on this topic nor in fighting aging. Take the mouse prize, this is nice, but given the normal lifespan of a mouse, and our current understanding of aging, it is once again hype and hubris. Why did the Methuselah Foundation not start with a C. Elegans or a Drosophila prize instead?
by melajara
makes clearer, ARGH! ;-)
by Mr.X
Transhumanism et al are lacking good propaganda.Most things I see would not even convince me.And I already have the same opinions as you folks.
It is also not very present (again, part of propaganda, but I wanted to emphasize that),
Maybe “sciency” (yeah) people are not good at people stuff.Even those new ageys are better at it.
My point is, if you solve that problem, you’ll get more rescourses (including manpower).One look into associated forums et sites and you see that transhumanism attracts (mostly) the wrong kind of people.
Another possibility is to go out and build a group of people doing the research you’d want.If you can pay them.I have seen some examples of that.
Ethical is relative.Nothing said.Or I’ll get me some ban.
Anyway.Have a nice day;)
by Giulio Prisco
@Mr.X re “Transhumanism et al are lacking good propaganda… Maybe “sciency” (yeah) people are not good at people stuff. Even those new ageys are better at it.”
I totally agree.
Re “transhumanism attracts (mostly) the wrong kind of people.”
I assume that “wrong kind of people” is to be interpreted in context (wrong kind of people = bad communicators).
What is the right kind of people, and how would you suggest to attract them?
by Bri
Transhumanism is still perceived as far fetched science fiction. Although it is closer than they think. When the technical aspects start to be realized, more people will come on board. I don’t see a need to convince others or do specific research until we are actually much closer. That’s my opinion. I would be curious as to what type of research you all feel would be worth the money spent, or why we Need to convert anyone to a transhumanist point of view.
by Mr.X
Re: “What is the right kind of people, and how would you suggest to attract them?”
Since you asked how I (capital) would do it, I’ll first say that a complete answer would be far too long for this comments section.I’ll shorten several steps, keep out the specifics (which is ok, since I’d use a methodology akin to “agile results” to create “stuff”) etc.And, one does not need to see the whole way in order to take steps.
First, to answer such a question, to know whom I’d need (aside from the general suspects: Leaders, Leaders of certain demographics + cultural groups (my list has twenty++ kinds of them, taken from the classic “Propaganda”),basically anyone with influence, and as direct allies, people who know how to conduct business, educate all kinds of people one needs such as public relationship experts and the one thing we do not lack, people who know about science) on my side,
I’d need much more information about transhumanism, it’s ideals, it’s history, and it’s goals.
I read about some political theory that said: We can, in all kinds of organizations/governments, find three types of people: The replaceable, the influential (their voice will command others) and the essential.Identifying and focusing on the latter (and some of the second group) should be the main work of anything that consumes time besides the production of propaganda media products.
I’d need enough information to at least propose goals that are tangible (e.g not something like: transcend humans.That’s OK, but more along the lines of repairing tissue damage through.. of course differently phrased).To determine good goals, I’d need to know for whom I am doing this, since most people, even though experts on the matter at hand, do not necessarily perceive the “less obvious” ways to achieve their goals.
But the primary reason i’d need to know more is: I think Transhumanism by it’s very nature is something that lends itself to “educational based selling.” To summarize that shortly, you see your costumer as client, and back up your claims with research.
I make this clear right now: Whatever one is doing (imho), non-profit stuff, advancing some ideology, or building connections (etc etc)- one is in the business of selling.Selling things, “yourself” (most not in a literal sense,I guess) and ideas.If you are like me, you sell all/most of these things;)
To understand how this is done in practice you need to know the concept of “core story”.It would be devised in conjunction with the formulation of my strategy (later).After I learned all this stuff about what I am doing, defined my “business” in broader terms (e.g railroad versus transportation) and redefined my relationship towards the target (in our case unecessary since we truly belief to act in their interest)- I/we’d go on and condense this info into different media formats, e.g a brochure that’s (another model would be needed, e.g emotionally compelling as example criterium) made by someone with design skills (or me, but I hate that, the last time I designed something was for the theme-based birthsdayparty of an aquaintance) under my close supervision.
It would for example be short, make use of precise rhetorics, and presents our case (hear one can include fallacies) while countering away the objections of opponents beforehand (without necessarely mentioning them, of course).It should not look like being biased (though there is research supporting almost everything).It has to be (that’s why we need the research) about the target, not us.They have to be educated about why they should support our cause.
Stop: By opponents I mean anyone who compets with us (but not anyone has necessarely something to say against us).In case of selling that’s broadly speaking everyone who wants to sell stuff.In our case these people are mostly other research groups and more importantly other ideologies, and religions.
One important thing in designing that brochure (the manifestation of the core story that I first saw when introduced to this concept) is to use guiding questions that lead the person to agree, another one is to avoid (insert extremely large list) things that upset, insult the person or anything the target groups (known through planning and research) could hold dear.
The ups and down of the brochure experience have to follow the format of all good performances (I have a model for that, but basically it’s stuff like avoiding to bring the best first, or be boring in beginning or end, just some ).All these steps can be taken with help of experts, if you are scared to do it alone (^^).
The design must be emotionally compelling, and clear (e.g stuff like pictures of old people, animals, children whatever included).
I’d also make use of reframing (for example using governmental research, noticing its cost and saying: Based on xy dollar research), and simplicity (5 things that you should know if you… etc etc)
Rightly done, it should be like an emotional roaler coaster, should make you want to believe/buy.
There are too many ways to get that reseach.I’d prefer to outsource that step to specialists (yeah they exist, but I am writing this on the go, and can’t remember the names), or do it myself through google.
It also should also be the base my future organization’s slogan (which can be build by obeying certain criteria and iteration).That slogan feature prominently wherever I want (it’s getting too much, I’d need to do some things before I know what’ be next).
This core story is what I’d use to train others (for example salespeople, though I’d never call them that way, more something line counselors^^ ), and align everything I plan to do to support it (and vice versa).
I’d then proceed to formulate a basic strategy, although we already started doing this.Defacto, I would build strategy and core story at the same time.
In strategy (that’s the way I do it) one can distinguish two basic tasks, which I call Strategic Planning (herein included strategic intent etc) and Strategic Thinking.The distinction between these two things generally blurrs, and at phases the former needs to be repeated.
Anyway, The former can be easily achieved by a concept called “guiding Questions”, which I already have ready at hand.These walk you through the formulation of a strategic plan with almost mechanical precision, they are based on several theories in the realms of strategy, business etc.I’d have to list a LOT of references to cover them.Some decide how we want to grow (what to outsource, to contact whom how, and how many people we’d need etc), which metrics we use (important, I’d use software to build models of what I am about to manipulate)to measure progress and how to automate stuff, and so on.
It would also include specific names of people and groups whom I’d want to approach.Depending on what you want to do (e.g journalists, afaik are eager to listen if you give them something that helps them write articles about your stuff, if said stuff is what furthers their aims).
Connecting to key persons be done through sending short questions per mail (á la Tim Ferris) to start a relationship, or if you are selling stuff you can catch the attention of people (this one I never tried) through sending them mail containing something cheap, cute or useful.Etc etc.
For example cheap 50 cent magnifiers are not that expensive if you send them right to the senior management (who may have not that good eyes anymore) of your potential “best buyers”.The most important thing is to beat the noise, to get that attention.
Strategic thinking is based on strategic principles, models etc.This intersects with different ways of “formal thinking skills”.It has to be learned through reading, case studies and application.Through drilling one get’s better at making quick decisions.
Now, there a lot of books out there on how to execute plans, so I’ll skip that.
There are also lots of books on rhetorics, politics etc out there.These all help to inform how the propaganda has to look.This is too much for this place, I think.I’d build a multi-criterion model (love that word) to take care of that.
In reality there is no sharp difference between politics, marketing, advertizing etc. I’d use principles and techniques from all these sources in order to create or supervise the creation of my “products” (in this case ideas/propaganda media).
In general, once you know the criteria (maybe one want’s to build a multi-criterion decision model), it should be quite easy to produce a piece of propaganda by means of some xy step algorithm.This can help to assure people besides you can do it.
Building organizations, social circles and how to organize them is too much to write down for me.One could write and sell entire books about this topic.De facto, people resell all these old ideas again and again :)
Let’s assume by now I know exactly what I want to do, and to whom.Using the guiding questions have found the relevant groups people etc, and can start to produce and spread tailor made propaganda through the media which most likely affects them.In order to get the guys I need I’d start some kind of income in conjunction with that, since I’d not get the people best suited without paying at least some of them.
One thing I certainly would want to do is called “softening the market”.Infusing a steady stream of memes, pictures, vids etc into media (internet, newspaper, remember one can send his research and claims to many newspapers all at once).Of course, this has to be based on the research, else you risk to brand yourself in a negative way (e.g saying the right thing at the wrong time can destroy many good things).
Over time people become more receptive to our cause.
Now it is just about doing all this consistently, monitoring (through metrics, software and internet/outsourcing) the effects, adjusting and letting the numbers of allies grow.
If the movement is big enough, it will be able to fend for itself.In general, you want to get people on your side who are smarter than you and can do what you can’t,Then I can RIP.
Damned, way too big^^
by Bri
I like the depth of your analysis. I think Guilo would too. Don’t worry about miss spellings, we all are in a rush. As I’ve said, I don’t think a mission statement is needed, but others do. You have a very sharp mind and I look forward to hearing your words in the future. I like meaty conversations and you offer up quite a filling meal. Nice to see good critical analysis.
by Mr.X
I did not mean that judgemtal, just like you said: in the context of.
My really long comment is still awaiting approval.I have written it down pretty fast, missing words and spelling mistakes are abound.Maybe it’s hard to understand^^
Basically I’d build a fundation/organization/ group of some kind, let specialists do research on matters pertaining specific goals, and build tailor made propaganda (the basis of all propaganda is the same, techniques like “name calling etc”, google has some lists i one wants to get a flavor).The specific of these things are partly in my other post.But fully outlining it would need several pages and more time.
Maybe I’d also change the name into something less “elitist”.I don’t know.I’d also try to make it more digestable to the mainstream, the way some of transhumanisms proponents present it it’s clearly about a smaller group of people.Some kind of well-off /nerd mix maybe?I’d need to know more about it.
But I’d certainly be much more systematic about it. To lay out all the principles of propaganda, social engeneering etc etc would produce a book like post (if I include examples, which are needed to be convincing).The rest comes with my other, metal listening inspired post.
by Mr.X
Anyway.It seems transhumanisms proponents never gave all too much thought about who could be their key demographics, and how their issues pertain to them.That’s amazing, when one considers the “graying” of the western world.
Another thing is that the way it is presented is entirely “anglocentrentic”.I only once/twice saw transhumanism in European in a bigger European newspaper- and it was represented as being for “nutjobs”.
by Bri
I myself am not apart of any movement. I don’t think anyone is heading it, or that there is a need for a leader. I think along the lines that Dr Kurzweil has refered to. That is to say it will be a gradual transformation. I’m fifty and on excellent health.y families health history leadse to believe that I will live into my late eighties to early nineties. Long before then I imagine my body will be regressed to around thirty years old. I’ll have the wisdom of my years and the strenghths of youth. The movement isn’t presented in any particular fashion. It includes all races. If the news papers you read tell you otherwise, I’d find a different source of information. I think you are misinformed. As to PIGS, I think they wouldn’t want to be considered ” food” to be eaten. They would be wise to follow your countries excellent fiscal sensibilities and adopt other Germanic traits. Also remember that to prosecute a war you need the will of the people. The Euro zone would not follow any world domination ideas, especially from Germany. It would be bery hard to get them to fight WWlll. On that not I’ll leave you with this saying. What do you say to a man with two black eyes???…. Nothing,,, he’s already been told twice!
by Mr.X
I really do not know what you talking about?
Germany does not intend to dominate the world.One of the newspapers was “Le Figaro”, hardly a German newspaper.
You know nothing about Europe.We know that you guys no longer share our values.People in Europe, anywhere but Great Britian, realize that we have to take our “destiny” in our own hands.
Maybe you should google pan-europeanism instead of telling a European what Europeans feel.Europe is lead by Germany and France.Just because you are brainwashed by your media of Germany-haters does not mean you know what we Europeans actually think.If you want to exclude me from that, I tell you straight away that I am not only German ;)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiti%C3%A9_franco-allemande
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch-franz%C3%B6sische_Beziehungen
And for you, since you I guess you do not know anything other than English (no offense intended):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France%E2%80%93Germany_relations
Speaking with people from Greece or immigrants is not exactly represantative of the opinion of the man on the street.The usual European does not even speak English, so how do you know what they think? I’d suggest reading some polls, our leadership for example is more popular abroad than in Germany (we are very critical of our leadership).You can start with BBC.
Even wikipedia says that transhumanism is predominantly angloamerican.You just do not notice it since you mistake your culture for being international in the sense of all encompassing.Us-internationalism as ideology is well-known.You even have “world cups” in which only US-citizens participate.
And your saying about us is some wannabe crap.The USA alone would have lost either world war against us.Considering all these conflicts like vietnam, one must guess you do not even have eyes anymore.
That would explain your constant ignorance on military matters.Maybe you should ask people who actually served, what they think about other countries abilities.
Btw:Are you threatening us/me?Do you think we are scared? I don’t care.If your country attacks mine I’ll personally go out and prepare for some of your people to not needing any talking anymore.
It was not our country that dismantled xtenths of freedom just because of some terrorist attacks. This time the whole of Europe (besides England) would be on one side.I am pretty sure a unified Europe will be stronger than the USA, despite all your talk about exceptionalism and manifest destiny.
Concerning WW3 and the peoples will.Bs.Just tell them constantly they and their values are threatened, etc and now we are under attack by xy.I am willing to bet Europe would react to any outside attack violently, just as in the past.There was no time but after WW2 that Europeans as a whole took all that crap.Without the WW’s you’d be some regional power.
And who should attack us?The only country I consider to be a real threat short-term would be yours.Anyone else just let’s others be or is far away.You are the only ones who think they have a right to interfere anywhere.
Ps: The only big bully left is the USA.Maybe WW3 will come about because you did not realize that your ten seconds of greatness are about to end.
Pps: In Europe we do not talk about races, since we have biology lessons in school.
by Logic
Could not agree more with X’s comment. One problem, in my opinion, is the label: “transhuman”. It conjures up images of something that’s “not me” and, for all my problems, I’m still “me” and I don’t want anyone taking that away from me. (I’m speaking as the general populace here.)
I don’t think there’s any need to do anything, though. The evolution comes naturally. People resist cars until they realize they’re more efficient than the horse and buggy. Same with these technologies. It’s why Kurzweil’s graphs demonstrate a consistent exponential trajectory throughout history regardless of historical events. It’s evolution, and it happens without individual intervention.
There isn’t really a problem to solve; there are merely ideas to share in a palatable way. People reject ideas like transhumanism, immortality, and the singularity because they are foreign concepts that don’t jibe with what we see out our windows today. They don’t appear to be compatible with what we already know and love.
The truth, of course, is that they are, but those who don’t spend time thinking about these things won’t see that until it’s outside their window. And at that point, they’ll use labels they’re comfortable with.
by Bri
I agree 100%. I feel dialogue is the best choice. It let’s people express their views with comfort, and allows them to make their own judgments.
by Marcos Marin
Ps.: haha, good point! I guess we are too busy ranting :-D (so plz stop revealing our tactics, lol)
by Mr.X
Trust me, it’s all part of my “grande Stratégie.”
“The strategist always slaughters the tactician.”
Or something like that.
by Bri
Ethics and morals changes with circumstances . If I discover a new continent and I’m the only one there, I could poop and piss where I want,. If I get my own island that probably wouldn’t be wise. If I invite friends to my new continent and they share my desire to poop and piss anywhere, it’s still a paradise. If I want the queen of England to visit me, she probably wouldn’t , unless I stop pooping and pissing all over the place.My beliefs in terms of death are very similar to Hindu beliefs. Om Nama Brahma( gods name is all births). Om Nama Visnu( god name is all sustainer). Om Nama Shiva( gods name is the destroyer of everything). We merge with that. Those morals and ethics are changeable to. That’s inplied in Vishnu. In order to sustain your body, you will create and destroy your own cells. Your cells are a community. It is like a bacterial community, just far more connected and complex. In the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still, GORT was a collection of nanobots. The idea comes from how our cells work together to form us.. Don’t worry about expressing your ideas! Use as many words as you like. If it offends someone on this site, they can always skip to another post. I could write till I’m blue in the face and not change a particular persons mind. Putting your ideas out allows everyone to take from it what they will. If I’m diametrically opposite you, it doesn’t make me wrong or right.
by Marcos Marin
It is at least the 2nd time I notice you’ve been enjoying my reading suggestion, Bri. I don’t like all the “anal stage” (psychological term) references though.
by Mr.X
@Bri: Maybe you would like to consider writing some books.Self-publishing is not that hard anymore.Getting some extra bucks for a hobby sounds not that bad either.Topic and content are far less important than you think, the right pitch, marketing etc and you’ll get more attention than you’d have thought.
And if you do it right (read up on that, too much to post here) you’ll end up as some kind of expert.Which helps making money with other stuff and even more books.A greedious cycle ;)
Or you could start a blog, if you are internet savvy and good at networking.
Or do both.Or any combination of what I said + other stuff.
Anyway your attitude is perfect for getting that first draft out, upon which you’ll iterate.That way your writing process would be pretty efficent.
Of course, if you do not know that stuff it takes some learning to get into it.
by Marcos Marin
I could not disagree more with you, Katherine. Except perhaps on the 2nd to last sentence, although, nothing stops you of generating a big fat sweaty pig avatar… so even here… well, having not much time to elaborate on preaching’s, let me just congratulate you for being an old science fiction writer, I love Old Sci-Fi. :-D
by melajara
Cryogenic preservation is a form of anti Pascal’s wager.
Makes much sense to me, however, as usual, there is too much hype/hubris involved in the way the problem is attacked.
I mean most people concentrate on phantasizing ad vitam aeternam instead of performing mundane and tedious science, with humble but achievable results acting as the next building blocks of further experiments to actually move in the right direction.
How far did we really progress from 40 years ago in cryopreservation of much simpler organisms?
Is there now a metric (e.g. a synthetic one combining the essential features of faithful life processes suspension/resumption) to properly assess the progress?
Is there a grand plan with a budget and distributed experiments (whose partial results have to be reunited to move on to the next step) to foster progress?
Some years ago, there was considerable interest in NO (nitric oxyde) to be used in the terminal phase before clinical death as a pre cryo protectant. Then we saw that NO is actually used as a neurotransmitter in ordinary life, albeit a curious one as it is spreading by diffusion and not by synaptic release. I don’t know if there is a path to better cryopreservation from here, but IMHO, this is the kind of questions to be asked and answered before counting the angels dancing or frozen on a cryogenized pin!
by Marcos Marin
Nitric Oxide is a ubiquitous essential compound throughout your organism perhaps as much as “vitamin” D… stop this naive believe that one magical substance will bypass our paramount ignorance of metabolism. The only hope, currently, is de Greys approach to fixing metabolism’s damage. Interfering will continue to be disastrous for quite some time.
by Mr.X
Hey, we have almost exactly the same opinion (almost since I did not think it through).Now I can go and die in peace.
Maybe I’ll find someone who puts me in his freezer.Hm.Yeah.In case you die or change your opinion, they shall try to bring me back.
Ps: I know I’d need some blood transfusion etc.Before people start “correcting” me.
by Carl Borrowman
If I was going to do cryonization, I’d wait for cellular regeneration, not digitization… the former doesn’t necessarily mean an absolute loss of the original stream of consciousness forever, whereas the latter most likely does. I’d want to be myself when I came back, not a pale artificial representation. That said, if digitization could be done in the process of waiting for cellular regeneration without harm to the source material, I wouldn’t be opposed to it.
by Marcos Marin
Finally some sanity to this place!
Welcome Carl.
by The Watcher
I don’t understand why there must be a classification on her Religion, why can’t she just be a person who chooses what she wants to be? I find it interesting that people are quick to tell HER what her belief or her religion is. Whether she believes in an afterlife, a God, a Spiritual world, I think she would know more than anyone here what she is, she’s spent a great deal of time on this planet and I think we should respect her choice in what she wishes to claim for her beliefs.
I like her ideas on nanobots to change your body to adapt to different planetary environments. I believe in the future this technology would be possible, but knowing how interconnected devices get, and that no device is truly secure, I am skeptical on having a complete body of nanobots.
by Marcos Marin
You are 1 psychological step away of finding out the unconscious reasons for why some can’t resist the tendency to bring — or even transform — everything into religion. Be careful now, as you are around some big ugly old toes to be stepped on, LoL
by Kennita
Some say that cryonics is a religion. i oint out that what we have is not faith, it is confidence.
by Mr.X
Christians often say: We do not believe, we know.That’s just some playing with words there.
Like the comment down there about afterlife, if cryopreserved persons are not “really” dead, then those patients are just unconscious.If that is the case, one could argue that cryonics doesn’t really promis an afterlife in a (western) religous sense.
by Starheart
You wouldn’t have to be a groupie. Or a clone of your favorite celebrity. Rather, you’d be able to live vicariously -through- them by connecting directly to their sensory input – assuming they permit which they likely will given celebrities are devoted to building social capital.
by DrDubious
In a way, Linda Chamberlain is no longer an atheist: she has adopted a belief that requires faith in some promised afterlife.
by de Broglie
I would agree that she has a sort of religion, but it is non-theist. Sort of like some people say Buddhism is an atheistic religion.
by Giulio Prisco
@DrDubious – Linda’s expectation of an afterlife is not a “belief” but a conviction, motivated and supported by science. Her convictions give her, I am sure, the same mental benefits that others find in religion, so in an important sense they are equivalent to religion.
by Logic
With respect, this too is merely clever word shifting. The fact is that both are “faith” (which is not a dirty word; scientists have faith all the time). The difference is that one is based on empirical evidence and is open to challenge or revision, whereas the other is immovable, even in the face of conflicting evidence.
by godot
My point is that we really should work to change the outdated laws to be compatible with cryopreservation and time-jumpers. It’s not just that the coroner CAN hack up my body once my heart and/or brainwaves stop (depending on state jurisdiction), they are REQUIRED TO.
by Marcos Marin
Isn’t calling it a “LOSS” bad for business?! Is the marketing department cryopreserved, a better term should at least be a “LEND”.
by Mr.X
Are you happy with your income?Maybe you should offer them your service ;)
Ps: The oceans of Europa^^ Anyway, we do not need any killer whales in our waters, even though right some tourists may look like that. Where’s Ahab when he’s needed?Should have cryopreserved him.
by Starheart
“Killer whale” is actually a synonym for orca. It does not imply homicidal behavior on the creature’s part. ;-)
by Mr.X
I know ;) Did I say anything along these lines?
Have a nice day.
by cosmowrench
I’m quite sure she meant the moon ‘Europa’, not the continent.
by Mr.X
Yeah.I thought the name means it is ours?
by Marcos Marin
Would you guys stop pointing out in how many ways Mr.X is wrong? He is clearly joking!
by Marcos Marin
I know too much neuroscience and psychology to bother with such mundane distractions.
Creative Commons is the ultimate progressive humanist ideal, they can take my bad, dark humored, jokes and use it as they see fit :-) And as the proper altruistic soul I am, I dont even want credit for it…
Ps.: Why is you postscript so much longer than your actual message?
by Mark
It may be so, but it is still accurate even if their plans play out.
I say this because cryopreservation has a long way to go until it is common. They have lost the help of that individual until he is thawed.
by Marcos Marin
of course, of course, and then we have all those human emotions of sorrow and separation… I know, I know, I’ve been briefed on it…
by Khannea Suntzu
Too bad he get a glimmer of a chance where a few billion people will never get any.
by Giulio Prisco
@K – I agree but, other things being equal, I prefer a world where Fred gets a chance, to a world where nobody gets a chance.
by Carl Borrowman
Fred’s the pioneer. It only makes sense he would get first dibs.
by Mr.X
I understand what you mean.But the rest of us won’t feel our nonexistense, right^^
Fairness is a concept that bears almost no relationship to reality.
Countless generations before as have been extinguished, and now there is a glimmer of hope for future generations.Tha’s at least something.
by godot
The real crime is that, the last time I checked, legacy laws in all 50 states prevent you from entering cryopreservation with a working body. To add insult, there are myriad ways that hospitals and coroners damage your body. Such permanent murder should be illegal. h
by Gorden Russell
Changing your body with nanobots. That’s what I’ve been talking about for a long time now. It’s good to see that somebody else has the same idea. Sometime after 2046 you will put a request into your morpher at bedtime for the shape you want to wear the next day. Kids will go for the latest rockstars and moviestars. They will go to concerts where everybody in the audience will look like the band. The groupies won’t know who to do.
by Clay Punnett
“The groupies won’t know who to do” LOL!!! Love it