Comments on: Daniel Wolpert: the real reason for brains http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains Accelerating Intelligence Sat, 25 May 2013 22:29:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Marcos Marin http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-92605 Marcos Marin Sun, 27 Jan 2013 23:53:39 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-92605 You are proving his point ma'am. Unless your orchids have evolved a brain of course, in which case you shouldn't call them orchids anymore... Unless you're Stephenie Meyer of course, then you call it anything you want, such as vampires, and it would still be a success. Though thinking about it, orchids ARE vampires, and actually vegetarians! hmmm.. what an epiphany, she writes about orchids. err.. no, they need no brains to "perceive" and you have just proven exactly that. If they are conscious of that "perception", that's another matter Mr.K would love to confound you about. You are proving his point ma’am. Unless your orchids have evolved a brain of course, in which case you shouldn’t call them orchids anymore… Unless you’re Stephenie Meyer of course, then you call it anything you want, such as vampires, and it would still be a success. Though thinking about it, orchids ARE vampires, and actually vegetarians! hmmm.. what an epiphany, she writes about orchids.

err.. no, they need no brains to “perceive” and you have just proven exactly that. If they are conscious of that “perception”, that’s another matter Mr.K would love to confound you about.

]]> By: GatorALLin http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-88788 GatorALLin Sat, 19 Jan 2013 03:42:17 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-88788 for snakes it seems that some if not much of movement is stored in the spinal cord. I once met up with a very aggressive rattlesnake that thought I must be a food source and a member in our group shot it (I was trying to relocate it). Anyhow... we ended up saving the skin and 10 rattles and also did eat the meat so it would not go to waste (yes, it actually tastes like chicken). We had cut the head off as it is known that even a snake you think is dead can often still bite you out of reflexes. This particular snake (with no head) when you would grab it around the middle (it was 4.5' long with no head) would spin around and strike you very quickly and hit very hard (leaving a bloody spot on your arm where you had been tagged). After it had no head for over 3 minutes the snake actually crawled down the hill we were standing on by 15 feet and then coiled up like it was still alive. 5 minutes later we had it skinned (removed all guts and skin) and had it in a plastic bag and if you grabbed the meat/body it it would still move. Growing up around snakes all my life, I had never witnessed a snake that was like this or later acted like it was alive when clearly was dead. Normally rattlesnakes rattle and warn you, this snake never attempted to rattle. I had a long walking stick with forked end that I could use to pin the snake's head or body to the ground and hold it in place without fear of being bit. I had gotten lucky and just seen it coming toward us as we were walking through the Kentucky woods on a forestry hike that day. The snake was fat or looked well feed and did have battle scars on its skin where you can see it had been in past fights. When I had first seen it I noticed it stopped, but raised its head up off the ground by a full 12" and using its tongue to taste the air and heat sensors made a direct line for me with an noticeable increase in speed toward me (note all past encounters with rattlesnakes in KY and FL found them to stop and be very still, or stop and coil, then rattle to warn off once they knew we were there). Looking back on this strange encounter, I am thinking it ate anything it had previously bumped into or at least was aggressive with it....so I am guessing it thought I was food vs. a possible threat. As kids we would often catch rattlesnakes for the thrill of it... that and coral snakes from FL where I grew up. I even worked at boy scout camp 2 summers where we must have caught (and later released) over 200 snakes per year. I have owned a dozen or so pythons, exotic lizards, exotic insects. In all those encounters with snakes I have never seen another snake as on automatic pilot and as fearless of humans as this particular rattlesnake. And although I have never been bit by a poisonous snake, I have been bit at least 100 times....Never did I think the snake thought he could take me....except for this one wild rattlesnake.... (and I think it never considered it couldn't take me). Still gives me the chills thinking back..... anyhow... a bit off subject with this story, but my point was that snakes seem to store memory related to movement in their spinal cord vs. their head as this one could crawl away, it could strike and also would respond to touch by recoiling against it with no head. for snakes it seems that some if not much of movement is stored in the spinal cord. I once met up with a very aggressive rattlesnake that thought I must be a food source and a member in our group shot it (I was trying to relocate it). Anyhow… we ended up saving the skin and 10 rattles and also did eat the meat so it would not go to waste (yes, it actually tastes like chicken). We had cut the head off as it is known that even a snake you think is dead can often still bite you out of reflexes. This particular snake (with no head) when you would grab it around the middle (it was 4.5′ long with no head) would spin around and strike you very quickly and hit very hard (leaving a bloody spot on your arm where you had been tagged). After it had no head for over 3 minutes the snake actually crawled down the hill we were standing on by 15 feet and then coiled up like it was still alive. 5 minutes later we had it skinned (removed all guts and skin) and had it in a plastic bag and if you grabbed the meat/body it it would still move. Growing up around snakes all my life, I had never witnessed a snake that was like this or later acted like it was alive when clearly was dead. Normally rattlesnakes rattle and warn you, this snake never attempted to rattle. I had a long walking stick with forked end that I could use to pin the snake’s head or body to the ground and hold it in place without fear of being bit. I had gotten lucky and just seen it coming toward us as we were walking through the Kentucky woods on a forestry hike that day. The snake was fat or looked well feed and did have battle scars on its skin where you can see it had been in past fights. When I had first seen it I noticed it stopped, but raised its head up off the ground by a full 12″ and using its tongue to taste the air and heat sensors made a direct line for me with an noticeable increase in speed toward me (note all past encounters with rattlesnakes in KY and FL found them to stop and be very still, or stop and coil, then rattle to warn off once they knew we were there). Looking back on this strange encounter, I am thinking it ate anything it had previously bumped into or at least was aggressive with it….so I am guessing it thought I was food vs. a possible threat. As kids we would often catch rattlesnakes for the thrill of it… that and coral snakes from FL where I grew up. I even worked at boy scout camp 2 summers where we must have caught (and later released) over 200 snakes per year. I have owned a dozen or so pythons, exotic lizards, exotic insects. In all those encounters with snakes I have never seen another snake as on automatic pilot and as fearless of humans as this particular rattlesnake. And although I have never been bit by a poisonous snake, I have been bit at least 100 times….Never did I think the snake thought he could take me….except for this one wild rattlesnake…. (and I think it never considered it couldn’t take me). Still gives me the chills thinking back….. anyhow… a bit off subject with this story, but my point was that snakes seem to store memory related to movement in their spinal cord vs. their head as this one could crawl away, it could strike and also would respond to touch by recoiling against it with no head.

]]> By: Knot http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-88237 Knot Thu, 17 Jan 2013 17:23:10 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-88237 More agile? Possibly, but not certainly. Humans are very capable of learning movements such as backflips and the like which show great control over the body. Martial arts are a good example of human agility. Once weapons are used it becomes even more complex; there are several staff-wielding styles to fend of other humans and animals, that are extraordinarily complex and effective uses of what is in essence a most simple tool. That being said, in total, tool-use and tool-making have led to amazing control over our environment, and it is true that in the end most of our techniques are made to facilitate -some- physical change/shift. Not saying I agree with the speaker fully, but he has a point. But then, his point is extremely broad, as 'movement' covers a great lot of content. All things aside, this was a reasonably fun TED to watch. More agile? Possibly, but not certainly. Humans are very capable of learning movements such as backflips and the like which show great control over the body. Martial arts are a good example of human agility. Once weapons are used it becomes even more complex; there are several staff-wielding styles to fend of other humans and animals, that are extraordinarily complex and effective uses of what is in essence a most simple tool. That being said, in total, tool-use and tool-making have led to amazing control over our environment, and it is true that in the end most of our techniques are made to facilitate -some- physical change/shift.

Not saying I agree with the speaker fully, but he has a point. But then, his point is extremely broad, as ‘movement’ covers a great lot of content. All things aside, this was a reasonably fun TED to watch.

]]> By: Vin http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-87764 Vin Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:48:14 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-87764 Interesting approach. Could open a whole new can of fascinating worms. Interesting approach. Could open a whole new can of fascinating worms.

]]> By: Atomsk http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-87752 Atomsk Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:05:23 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-87752 Brain size doesn't necessarily help agility but it certainly helps learning more different kinds of movement (like movement of the tongue/mouth for speech/communication). Brain size doesn’t necessarily help agility but it certainly helps learning more different kinds of movement (like movement of the tongue/mouth for speech/communication).

]]> By: Whittaker http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-87434 Whittaker Tue, 15 Jan 2013 20:26:54 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-87434 That's what DARPA SyNAPSE is working on. That’s what DARPA SyNAPSE is working on.

]]> By: Vin http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-87375 Vin Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:32:40 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-87375 Many animals are much more graceful and agile than humans so why are they not brainier? P(movement control | brain generation) = low, many agile graceful animals hardly have any brains. P(brain generation) = low compared to humans P(movement control) = high, most animals have it. so, P(brain generation | movement control)= (low * low) /high = rather low? Many animals are much more graceful and agile than humans so why are they not brainier?

P(movement control | brain generation) = low, many agile graceful animals hardly have any brains.

P(brain generation) = low compared to humans

P(movement control) = high, most animals have it.

so, P(brain generation | movement control)= (low * low) /high = rather low?

]]> By: Bri http://www.kurzweilai.net/daniel-wolpert-the-real-reason-for-brains/comment-page-1#comment-87367 Bri Tue, 15 Jan 2013 15:34:03 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=176576#comment-87367 Althogh I agree with his general premise, I think perception had to come first in order to have an impetus to evolve motion. Many of my orchid will climb, particularly the cattleyas. They grow toward light, sending out shoots that will steer toward the light. If they encounter a area that has a niche that collects rain water and debris along with adequate light, they change their growth habit from straight in a line to circular with multiple growth tips. This way if they find a crotch from a branch they'll colonize it. Althogh I agree with his general premise, I think perception had to come first in order to have an impetus to evolve motion. Many of my orchid will climb, particularly the cattleyas. They grow toward light, sending out shoots that will steer toward the light. If they encounter a area that has a niche that collects rain water and debris along with adequate light, they change their growth habit from straight in a line to circular with multiple growth tips. This way if they find a crotch from a branch they’ll colonize it.

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