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	<title>Comments on: Do we live inside a mathematical equation?</title>
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		<title>By: Matt Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-128605</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Montgomery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Mar 2013 18:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is a related KurzweilAI article about Jürgen Schmidhuber&#039;s ensemble of computable multiverses. Tegmark and Schmidhuber published their first papers on this in 1997 when they were both based in Munich. 

Schmidhuber emphasizes computability and computational complexity. He even uses this to make  predictions. So his theory is falsifiable, to an extent. 

He also gives credit to his brother Christof Schmidhuber, a string theorist. He says he suspects Christof&#039;s earlier ideas on the &quot;universe as the sum of all mathematics&quot; are the real reason why such ideas emerged in Munich. Check it out: http://www.kurzweilai.net/in-the-beginning-was-the-code</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a related KurzweilAI article about Jürgen Schmidhuber&#8217;s ensemble of computable multiverses. Tegmark and Schmidhuber published their first papers on this in 1997 when they were both based in Munich. </p>
<p>Schmidhuber emphasizes computability and computational complexity. He even uses this to make  predictions. So his theory is falsifiable, to an extent. </p>
<p>He also gives credit to his brother Christof Schmidhuber, a string theorist. He says he suspects Christof&#8217;s earlier ideas on the &#8220;universe as the sum of all mathematics&#8221; are the real reason why such ideas emerged in Munich. Check it out: <a href="http://www.kurzweilai.net/in-the-beginning-was-the-code" rel="nofollow">http://www.kurzweilai.net/in-the-beginning-was-the-code</a></p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-116077</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>After I have thought repetitively about Omega Point Theory, I find it not satisfying. &quot;Subjective infinite lifespan&quot; is not *real* infinite lifespan. 
I recommend people to Google &quot;Linde&#039;s Scenario&quot;.
Linde&#039;s Scenario involves escaping or expanding into other universes (provide that such other universes exist).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After I have thought repetitively about Omega Point Theory, I find it not satisfying. &#8220;Subjective infinite lifespan&#8221; is not *real* infinite lifespan.<br />
I recommend people to Google &#8220;Linde&#8217;s Scenario&#8221;.<br />
Linde&#8217;s Scenario involves escaping or expanding into other universes (provide that such other universes exist).</p>
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		<title>By: thinkahol</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101846</link>
		<dc:creator>thinkahol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2013 08:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My guesses are as an experiment or as a passing of the torch (so to speak). There are countless reasons we experiment, one of which is to help us figure out our own origins. And by &quot;passing of the torch&quot; i&#039;m reflecting on valuing life. We now know that our universe is unstable, and it seems like it would be approaching heat death anyway. What if in in creating new universes we could expand time within them (even if only experientially).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guesses are as an experiment or as a passing of the torch (so to speak). There are countless reasons we experiment, one of which is to help us figure out our own origins. And by &#8220;passing of the torch&#8221; i&#8217;m reflecting on valuing life. We now know that our universe is unstable, and it seems like it would be approaching heat death anyway. What if in in creating new universes we could expand time within them (even if only experientially).</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101543</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2013 03:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Positive/constructivist predictions are often true.
First of the  Arthur C. Clarke&#039;s 3 Laws: 
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Positive/constructivist predictions are often true.<br />
First of the  Arthur C. Clarke&#8217;s 3 Laws:<br />
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101542</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2013 03:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101542</guid>
		<description>A deist god perhaps (a creator), certainly not a theist god (a supervisor).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A deist god perhaps (a creator), certainly not a theist god (a supervisor).</p>
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		<title>By: XLife</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101531</link>
		<dc:creator>XLife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2013 02:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101531</guid>
		<description>That would make sense since many programmers think they&#039;re God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That would make sense since many programmers think they&#8217;re God.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101430</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 18:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I suppose so, but I&#039;m not smart enough to take the idea any further than I already have :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose so, but I&#8217;m not smart enough to take the idea any further than I already have :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101369</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 16:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101369</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a question:  Why are we here?  Say we do live in a mathematical equation or a simulacrum, but why?  Are we entertainment for something/someone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question:  Why are we here?  Say we do live in a mathematical equation or a simulacrum, but why?  Are we entertainment for something/someone?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanne</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101347</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 15:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sometimes it sounds as if the theorist is simply describing his/her own mind.  Is there more?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes it sounds as if the theorist is simply describing his/her own mind.  Is there more?</p>
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		<title>By: Heikos</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101331</link>
		<dc:creator>Heikos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 14:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101331</guid>
		<description>Sounds correct. Though we can&#039;t predict it to be almost certainly wrong in the future, as we don&#039;t know if it is possible to know &#039;everything&#039;. And even if it is possible, how far away that point is. 

Predicting that predictions are often wrong, seems to speak against itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds correct. Though we can&#8217;t predict it to be almost certainly wrong in the future, as we don&#8217;t know if it is possible to know &#8216;everything&#8217;. And even if it is possible, how far away that point is. </p>
<p>Predicting that predictions are often wrong, seems to speak against itself.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101286</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101286</guid>
		<description>It does. So is there anything simpler you can build stuff out of? If not, doesn&#039;t it mean that we&#039;re built out of that, 0 and 1, nothing and something, being and non-being, two different things whatever they are?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does. So is there anything simpler you can build stuff out of? If not, doesn&#8217;t it mean that we&#8217;re built out of that, 0 and 1, nothing and something, being and non-being, two different things whatever they are?</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101102</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 06:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101102</guid>
		<description>The smallest unit for describing something has to be two of something. If you have only one it is static. What you call the two rescinding elements is just the language that you use. Mathematics is just a language. It uses symbols to describe relationships. Me personally I prefer Yin and Yang. It&#039;s just a graphic of ones and zeros. Another symbol that represents the same thing. Whether you say that reality is a mathematical simulation or a holodeck, you are saying the same thing. What it boils down to is energy being bond to a relationship. Take away the energy and what you have left is the concept. I refer to that as spirit. When our universe comes to it&#039;s end and time and space no longer exist, as Roger Penrose&#039;s latest theory explores, those concept still exist. It&#039;s just that there isn&#039;t any matter to express them in. The concepts are eternal. In infinite time  all of them will repeat endlessly. Time becomes irrelevent. That is why your spirit is eternal. This reality is a manifestation of concepts or spirit. Even energy itself is a concept from spirit. That realm of spirit is what we call heaven or god.  All the infinite possibilities exist there, they just aren&#039;t manifest. As soon as you separate just one concept and manifest it, you create a need for time and space. It must have a beginning, and if it has a beginning it must have an end. In the Hindu language it is refered to as Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The lords of birth sustenance and death. They are anthropomorphized because consciousness creates them. Without the observer what exists? I Am..... That.... I Am. We are tiny fractions of that &quot;spark&quot;. All of everything together is god.( I know all things, I am all things, as Mc Cloud says in The Highlander) nearer than hands, nearer than feet. Even every speck of nothing is pregnant (potential) with everything. Nothing is god experiencing or knowing not knowing or unconsciousness. They are opposite sides of the same coin, or Yin and Yang that is the holodeck. To get to the other side you have to observe the observer. To do that you have to stop observing your manifestation in this plane of existence. Suspend your existence and you revert to your primordial form. The center of an infinite circle. The uncollapsed wave function. All possibilities. Your physical body keeps trying to call you back unless you learn how to unmanifest it. Then you can send it anywhere through what we refer to as worm holes. That&#039;s what the EPR effect or entanglement gets it&#039;s spooky action at a distance from. Time and space are just an illusion that we all create together. It&#039;s a room full of mirrors. There is only the one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The smallest unit for describing something has to be two of something. If you have only one it is static. What you call the two rescinding elements is just the language that you use. Mathematics is just a language. It uses symbols to describe relationships. Me personally I prefer Yin and Yang. It&#8217;s just a graphic of ones and zeros. Another symbol that represents the same thing. Whether you say that reality is a mathematical simulation or a holodeck, you are saying the same thing. What it boils down to is energy being bond to a relationship. Take away the energy and what you have left is the concept. I refer to that as spirit. When our universe comes to it&#8217;s end and time and space no longer exist, as Roger Penrose&#8217;s latest theory explores, those concept still exist. It&#8217;s just that there isn&#8217;t any matter to express them in. The concepts are eternal. In infinite time  all of them will repeat endlessly. Time becomes irrelevent. That is why your spirit is eternal. This reality is a manifestation of concepts or spirit. Even energy itself is a concept from spirit. That realm of spirit is what we call heaven or god.  All the infinite possibilities exist there, they just aren&#8217;t manifest. As soon as you separate just one concept and manifest it, you create a need for time and space. It must have a beginning, and if it has a beginning it must have an end. In the Hindu language it is refered to as Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The lords of birth sustenance and death. They are anthropomorphized because consciousness creates them. Without the observer what exists? I Am&#8230;.. That&#8230;. I Am. We are tiny fractions of that &#8220;spark&#8221;. All of everything together is god.( I know all things, I am all things, as Mc Cloud says in The Highlander) nearer than hands, nearer than feet. Even every speck of nothing is pregnant (potential) with everything. Nothing is god experiencing or knowing not knowing or unconsciousness. They are opposite sides of the same coin, or Yin and Yang that is the holodeck. To get to the other side you have to observe the observer. To do that you have to stop observing your manifestation in this plane of existence. Suspend your existence and you revert to your primordial form. The center of an infinite circle. The uncollapsed wave function. All possibilities. Your physical body keeps trying to call you back unless you learn how to unmanifest it. Then you can send it anywhere through what we refer to as worm holes. That&#8217;s what the EPR effect or entanglement gets it&#8217;s spooky action at a distance from. Time and space are just an illusion that we all create together. It&#8217;s a room full of mirrors. There is only the one.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-101068</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 04:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-101068</guid>
		<description>I agree. Any anything more complex than 0 or 1 can simply be expressed as a string of binary numbers. It occurred to me that the universe &quot;on paper&quot; is a nearly (or actual) infinite number made up of zeros and ones in succession. And the relative abundance of zeros or ones and accompanying patterns account for varying degrees of complexity.  Does this make sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Any anything more complex than 0 or 1 can simply be expressed as a string of binary numbers. It occurred to me that the universe &#8220;on paper&#8221; is a nearly (or actual) infinite number made up of zeros and ones in succession. And the relative abundance of zeros or ones and accompanying patterns account for varying degrees of complexity.  Does this make sense?</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100604</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100604</guid>
		<description>I want to quote Rick Cook about Omega Point:
Tipler&#039;s God at the end of the universe is no scowling Yahweh or thunderbolt-slinging Jupiter, or even kindly, gentle Gaea. His Holy Spirit is the universal wave function of quantum mechanics, and his God is the most super of all the supercomputers, an information-processing construct that literally encompasses the whole universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to quote Rick Cook about Omega Point:<br />
Tipler&#8217;s God at the end of the universe is no scowling Yahweh or thunderbolt-slinging Jupiter, or even kindly, gentle Gaea. His Holy Spirit is the universal wave function of quantum mechanics, and his God is the most super of all the supercomputers, an information-processing construct that literally encompasses the whole universe.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100592</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100592</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reply. I speculate that, even after we achieve the Omega Point (if finite Can achieve infinity, then we probably won&#039;t take the whole Universe), the vast *Intelligence* and *Knowledge* we gain will still dwarf in comparison to some Even Greater Form of Infinity. 
(Mathematician Georg Cantor invented the concept of &quot;Transfinite&quot;: Some Infinities are Greater Than Others.)
For example, the Infinite Set of all Real Numbers is Much Larger Than the Infinite Set of All Integers.
Perhaps a Universe-wide (Cosmic) Omega Point is a prelude to some Even Greater (Multi-Cosmic) Omega Point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply. I speculate that, even after we achieve the Omega Point (if finite Can achieve infinity, then we probably won&#8217;t take the whole Universe), the vast *Intelligence* and *Knowledge* we gain will still dwarf in comparison to some Even Greater Form of Infinity.<br />
(Mathematician Georg Cantor invented the concept of &#8220;Transfinite&#8221;: Some Infinities are Greater Than Others.)<br />
For example, the Infinite Set of all Real Numbers is Much Larger Than the Infinite Set of All Integers.<br />
Perhaps a Universe-wide (Cosmic) Omega Point is a prelude to some Even Greater (Multi-Cosmic) Omega Point.</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewQ</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100591</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 04:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100591</guid>
		<description>Ya, my comment was more pointing towards the &#039;awesomeness&#039; of a creature who could actually accomplish this. Not really that there would be a legitimate point in doing so. I like to imagine things like &#039;god&#039; being a membrane that contains the universe- it can access all the information within and all the constituent parts inside amount to organelles inside a cell. And then, you have enough of those tied together to make an organ. Then a lot of organs making an organism, species, society. 

I love thinking about these things but when you get on those lines of thought it&#039;s always recursive into infinity and it starts to unravel your mind.

This is the &#039;disturbing implication&#039; of the Level IV multiverse/reality. If a mathematical construct that describes such a thing exists- then that thing exists. If you can write the code for a god dribbling a universe like a basketball, it exists. As long as the math is consistent.

I enjoyed your post. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya, my comment was more pointing towards the &#8216;awesomeness&#8217; of a creature who could actually accomplish this. Not really that there would be a legitimate point in doing so. I like to imagine things like &#8216;god&#8217; being a membrane that contains the universe- it can access all the information within and all the constituent parts inside amount to organelles inside a cell. And then, you have enough of those tied together to make an organ. Then a lot of organs making an organism, species, society. </p>
<p>I love thinking about these things but when you get on those lines of thought it&#8217;s always recursive into infinity and it starts to unravel your mind.</p>
<p>This is the &#8216;disturbing implication&#8217; of the Level IV multiverse/reality. If a mathematical construct that describes such a thing exists- then that thing exists. If you can write the code for a god dribbling a universe like a basketball, it exists. As long as the math is consistent.</p>
<p>I enjoyed your post. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewQ</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100586</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100586</guid>
		<description>He actually said in his comment that he did not (assuming he&#039;s human).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He actually said in his comment that he did not (assuming he&#8217;s human).</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100584</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100584</guid>
		<description>Yes, but is there anything less you can reduce it to?

Nothing and half, 0 and 0.5 perhaps? (What is half? What is half of something? Is it neither nothing nor something? Is it both nothing and something?)

Or nothing and infinitesimal 0.0000...1 (where &#039;...&#039; is infinity) or 0.999...

In any case you can represent them as nothing and something. Something can be anything, anything except nothing, so anything can represent it. Nothing can be represented by anything also, but absence of something (whatever it is) is usually practical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but is there anything less you can reduce it to?</p>
<p>Nothing and half, 0 and 0.5 perhaps? (What is half? What is half of something? Is it neither nothing nor something? Is it both nothing and something?)</p>
<p>Or nothing and infinitesimal 0.0000&#8230;1 (where &#8216;&#8230;&#8217; is infinity) or 0.999&#8230;</p>
<p>In any case you can represent them as nothing and something. Something can be anything, anything except nothing, so anything can represent it. Nothing can be represented by anything also, but absence of something (whatever it is) is usually practical.</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100568</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100568</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a debatable point if a finite can ever reach true infinity. Even the sum total of this universe would disappear in relation to a true infinite, but I do like your choice of reasoning. We still have to deal with that heat death of the universe thing. Though I do take comfort in multidimensionality/ string theory stuff. Not to mention the multiverse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a debatable point if a finite can ever reach true infinity. Even the sum total of this universe would disappear in relation to a true infinite, but I do like your choice of reasoning. We still have to deal with that heat death of the universe thing. Though I do take comfort in multidimensionality/ string theory stuff. Not to mention the multiverse.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100544</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 01:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100544</guid>
		<description>Our hope (for achieveing True Omniscience) lies in the Omega Point.

Frank J. Tipler believed that In the far future, We will convert the Whole Universe into a Supercomputer (and We will Merge with that Supercomputer). Through some form of Esoteric Physics, It is possible to make this Universe Supercomputer to Perform Infinite Computation with Finite Energy And Within Finite Time. If that happens, we will Achieve Omniscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our hope (for achieveing True Omniscience) lies in the Omega Point.</p>
<p>Frank J. Tipler believed that In the far future, We will convert the Whole Universe into a Supercomputer (and We will Merge with that Supercomputer). Through some form of Esoteric Physics, It is possible to make this Universe Supercomputer to Perform Infinite Computation with Finite Energy And Within Finite Time. If that happens, we will Achieve Omniscience.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100518</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100518</guid>
		<description>There are more than the *0-1* (Binary) method to reduce Mathematics to.
If Charles Babbage&#039;s Decimal Computer (which used *0-9*) became mainstream, we would probably say that &quot;Everything in Mathematics can be reduced to 0 to 9&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are more than the *0-1* (Binary) method to reduce Mathematics to.<br />
If Charles Babbage&#8217;s Decimal Computer (which used *0-9*) became mainstream, we would probably say that &#8220;Everything in Mathematics can be reduced to 0 to 9&#8243;.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100516</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 23:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100516</guid>
		<description>Everything in mathematics can be reduced to 0 and 1, nothing and something, as the computer you&#039;re using demonstrates. Can you imagine a universe that doesn&#039;t have those two things? 

It seems that when you take everything else away those two things are what&#039;s left, hence nothing else really exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everything in mathematics can be reduced to 0 and 1, nothing and something, as the computer you&#8217;re using demonstrates. Can you imagine a universe that doesn&#8217;t have those two things? </p>
<p>It seems that when you take everything else away those two things are what&#8217;s left, hence nothing else really exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Hopper</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100508</link>
		<dc:creator>Hopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100508</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if this is the link you&#039;re looking for, but I believe the same concept applies.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/neuroprosthesis-gives-rats-the-ability-to-touch-infrared-light

This is what we as humans try to do.  Take information and try to realize it it terms we are comfortable with.  This is the driving motivation behind models.  

So, if at some point we are able to input numerical values as a paticular sensation in our brain, instead of &quot;doing&quot; mathmatics, we&#039;d be comprehending it&#039;s very nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if this is the link you&#8217;re looking for, but I believe the same concept applies.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kurzweilai.net/neuroprosthesis-gives-rats-the-ability-to-touch-infrared-light" rel="nofollow">http://www.kurzweilai.net/neuroprosthesis-gives-rats-the-ability-to-touch-infrared-light</a></p>
<p>This is what we as humans try to do.  Take information and try to realize it it terms we are comfortable with.  This is the driving motivation behind models.  </p>
<p>So, if at some point we are able to input numerical values as a paticular sensation in our brain, instead of &#8220;doing&#8221; mathmatics, we&#8217;d be comprehending it&#8217;s very nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100506</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 22:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100506</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been holding off on this type of line of reasoning. What is the observer? We talk about augmentation and some of Leonardos post references this. There is so much that we don&#039;t experience. Can we experience everything? Can mathematics represent any infinity? Was the infinite always there and if not, how did infinity come into being. If we manage to &quot; live forever&quot; does our consciousness become infinite? I think all of this lies well outside the abilities of any mathematics. Mathematician and physicist don&#039;t like infinities. They generate nonsense answers. There is no practical way to relate to something that has no boundaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been holding off on this type of line of reasoning. What is the observer? We talk about augmentation and some of Leonardos post references this. There is so much that we don&#8217;t experience. Can we experience everything? Can mathematics represent any infinity? Was the infinite always there and if not, how did infinity come into being. If we manage to &#8221; live forever&#8221; does our consciousness become infinite? I think all of this lies well outside the abilities of any mathematics. Mathematician and physicist don&#8217;t like infinities. They generate nonsense answers. There is no practical way to relate to something that has no boundaries.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100502</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100502</guid>
		<description>&quot;... he must “connect” to the originator of this “Ultimate Knowledge”... &quot;
I believe that *connecting* to cyborgization parts that enhance our cognitive abilities is a better solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; he must “connect” to the originator of this “Ultimate Knowledge”&#8230; &#8221;<br />
I believe that *connecting* to cyborgization parts that enhance our cognitive abilities is a better solution.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100500</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100500</guid>
		<description>Physics can never be doomed.
In 1875, when Max Planck was only 17, he chose to study Physics.

The Munich physics professor Philipp von Jolly advised Planck against going into physics, saying, &quot;in this field, almost everything is already discovered, and all that remains is to fill a few holes.&quot; (From Wikipedia)

Whenever we think everything is already discovered, we are almost certainly wrong.
Here are more good examples of experts&#039; (pessimic) predictions that end up wrong:
http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Physics can never be doomed.<br />
In 1875, when Max Planck was only 17, he chose to study Physics.</p>
<p>The Munich physics professor Philipp von Jolly advised Planck against going into physics, saying, &#8220;in this field, almost everything is already discovered, and all that remains is to fill a few holes.&#8221; (From Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Whenever we think everything is already discovered, we are almost certainly wrong.<br />
Here are more good examples of experts&#8217; (pessimic) predictions that end up wrong:<br />
<a href="http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.rinkworks.com/said/predictions.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: asiwel</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100493</link>
		<dc:creator>asiwel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 21:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100493</guid>
		<description>This article certainly generated enough comments! I would add only a recommendation to take a look at an amazing book published in 2011:  BEYOND PERMANENCE: THE GREAT IDEAS OF THE WEST by Craig Eisendrath, which I believe may have been reviewed here on KurzweilAI.net. This story book begins with the ancient Sumerians and the Epic of Gilgamesh, goes through all or most of the major Western philosophies of science and religion since then, and winds up concluding with a lengthy and thoughtful discussion of the ideas of Werner R. Loewenstein and Ray Kurzweil! That surely covers a bit of fundamental &quot;ground,&quot; so to speak, but almost all of Eisendrath&#039;s thesis and selected topics reflect directly on the comments here about a &quot;mathematical reality&quot; hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article certainly generated enough comments! I would add only a recommendation to take a look at an amazing book published in 2011:  BEYOND PERMANENCE: THE GREAT IDEAS OF THE WEST by Craig Eisendrath, which I believe may have been reviewed here on KurzweilAI.net. This story book begins with the ancient Sumerians and the Epic of Gilgamesh, goes through all or most of the major Western philosophies of science and religion since then, and winds up concluding with a lengthy and thoughtful discussion of the ideas of Werner R. Loewenstein and Ray Kurzweil! That surely covers a bit of fundamental &#8220;ground,&#8221; so to speak, but almost all of Eisendrath&#8217;s thesis and selected topics reflect directly on the comments here about a &#8220;mathematical reality&#8221; hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhadji</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100440</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhadji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100440</guid>
		<description>Do you &quot;know&quot; this  ‘Ultimate Knowledge”??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you &#8220;know&#8221; this  ‘Ultimate Knowledge”??</p>
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		<title>By: CharlesH</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100219</link>
		<dc:creator>CharlesH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 01:42:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100219</guid>
		<description>Not that I take the &quot;message embedded in Pi&quot; seriously, to to answer your implied question of &quot;But, I fail to imagine how could Pi take on a differnet value.&quot;, you need to realize that the traditional value of Pi doesn&#039;t apply to this universe.  The traditional value applies only to a flat space-time.  When space-time is bent, the value of Pi that applies changes.   And we live in a bent space-time.  Also note that it&#039;s bent in different degrees at different locations, from inter-galactic space, to near a black-hole.  So the value of pi isn&#039;t constant over the universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that I take the &#8220;message embedded in Pi&#8221; seriously, to to answer your implied question of &#8220;But, I fail to imagine how could Pi take on a differnet value.&#8221;, you need to realize that the traditional value of Pi doesn&#8217;t apply to this universe.  The traditional value applies only to a flat space-time.  When space-time is bent, the value of Pi that applies changes.   And we live in a bent space-time.  Also note that it&#8217;s bent in different degrees at different locations, from inter-galactic space, to near a black-hole.  So the value of pi isn&#8217;t constant over the universe.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100213</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100213</guid>
		<description>&quot; Dyson Sphere around a galaxy... &quot; 
I believe building multiple Dyson Spheres around every (or most) stars in a galaxy is a more optimal solution. It would be more flexible (you can move the stars and change the overall shape of that galaxy easier).
If a Dyson Sphere also functions as a *star-mover* (please Google &quot;Shkadov Thruster&quot;), then stars can be moved at the will of intelligent beings. 
Perhaps the *disk-shape* is not the optimal shape for galaxies. 
Supercivilizations can probably reshape their galaxy (or multiple galaxies) into a more de-centralized shape (instead of having most matter and the supermassive blackholes concentrating in the *galactic-core* and the galaxy being a disk with the rest of *spherical-volume* unpopulated, the galaxy can be modified to a more homogeneous shape).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Dyson Sphere around a galaxy&#8230; &#8221;<br />
I believe building multiple Dyson Spheres around every (or most) stars in a galaxy is a more optimal solution. It would be more flexible (you can move the stars and change the overall shape of that galaxy easier).<br />
If a Dyson Sphere also functions as a *star-mover* (please Google &#8220;Shkadov Thruster&#8221;), then stars can be moved at the will of intelligent beings.<br />
Perhaps the *disk-shape* is not the optimal shape for galaxies.<br />
Supercivilizations can probably reshape their galaxy (or multiple galaxies) into a more de-centralized shape (instead of having most matter and the supermassive blackholes concentrating in the *galactic-core* and the galaxy being a disk with the rest of *spherical-volume* unpopulated, the galaxy can be modified to a more homogeneous shape).</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewQ</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100209</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2013 00:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100209</guid>
		<description>&quot;I feel certain that a Q-like intelligence is an inevitability&quot;

Me too. 

I remember how awed I was when I first encountered the idea of an advanced species building a Dyson Sphere around a sun. Then one day the thought struck me- what about a being who could build a Dyson Sphere around a galaxy? And that idea is, of course, further recursive by taking the idea up one more notch to include our entire Hubble Volume. It actually makes me shudder in awe/fear/dread to take that idea any further than that.

An explanation for the &#039;dark matter&#039; we are missing? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I feel certain that a Q-like intelligence is an inevitability&#8221;</p>
<p>Me too. </p>
<p>I remember how awed I was when I first encountered the idea of an advanced species building a Dyson Sphere around a sun. Then one day the thought struck me- what about a being who could build a Dyson Sphere around a galaxy? And that idea is, of course, further recursive by taking the idea up one more notch to include our entire Hubble Volume. It actually makes me shudder in awe/fear/dread to take that idea any further than that.</p>
<p>An explanation for the &#8216;dark matter&#8217; we are missing? ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: ARaiken</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100163</link>
		<dc:creator>ARaiken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100163</guid>
		<description>I think you answered you&#039;re own question. You said &quot;I can&#039;t imagine it.&quot; Perhaps that is what limits you. Each Universe would be it&#039;s own construct. The rules don&#039;t exist outside of each one. They are not dependent on one another for their existence. What you&#039;re trying to describe is a grain of sand in the desert of possibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you answered you&#8217;re own question. You said &#8220;I can&#8217;t imagine it.&#8221; Perhaps that is what limits you. Each Universe would be it&#8217;s own construct. The rules don&#8217;t exist outside of each one. They are not dependent on one another for their existence. What you&#8217;re trying to describe is a grain of sand in the desert of possibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mooney</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100162</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mooney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 20:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100162</guid>
		<description>Physics may be doomed, but how do we know where math will go? One day advanced math may be couched in terms of music. Isn&#039;t that how it started, with the study of musical ratios? What equations are Beethoven and Mozart making? When flying aboard a KC-135 many years ago, which is unshielded to jet noise, the white noise gradually turned into classical music in my head. Oddly, I had no taste for it at the time. Why not pop or Beatles? Classical really could be the Music of the Spheres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Physics may be doomed, but how do we know where math will go? One day advanced math may be couched in terms of music. Isn&#8217;t that how it started, with the study of musical ratios? What equations are Beethoven and Mozart making? When flying aboard a KC-135 many years ago, which is unshielded to jet noise, the white noise gradually turned into classical music in my head. Oddly, I had no taste for it at the time. Why not pop or Beatles? Classical really could be the Music of the Spheres.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100148</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100148</guid>
		<description>I have no interest in laughing at your ideas as I find them quite interesting and plausible.  All thoughts are energy.   They leave us and they head out into the quantum universe.  Which is why someone can feel you thinking of them at any distance and without the travel time of light.  Synchronicity is the acknowledgment that the universe is simultaneously mathematical and mystical and that we can live at a higher level of awareness of its machinations.  I find this very satisfying and I have found it to be absolutely true in the practice of my own life.  When I synchronize good things happen all around me like harmonic waves of sound lining up to make beautiful music.  Aligning the waves...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no interest in laughing at your ideas as I find them quite interesting and plausible.  All thoughts are energy.   They leave us and they head out into the quantum universe.  Which is why someone can feel you thinking of them at any distance and without the travel time of light.  Synchronicity is the acknowledgment that the universe is simultaneously mathematical and mystical and that we can live at a higher level of awareness of its machinations.  I find this very satisfying and I have found it to be absolutely true in the practice of my own life.  When I synchronize good things happen all around me like harmonic waves of sound lining up to make beautiful music.  Aligning the waves&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100146</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100146</guid>
		<description>We should behave by being interesting.  By having expansive thoughts, and promoting new ideas and ways of looking at the world that make life more meaningful and joyful.  I believe there is a moral component to existence and that joy is in fact preferred at the cellular level for longevity and health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should behave by being interesting.  By having expansive thoughts, and promoting new ideas and ways of looking at the world that make life more meaningful and joyful.  I believe there is a moral component to existence and that joy is in fact preferred at the cellular level for longevity and health.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100143</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100143</guid>
		<description>I feel certain that a Q-like intelligence is an inevitability given enough time for a species to evolve to that level and/or merge with its technology.  The interesting question for me then becomes: What does a Q-like intelligence crave?  And would a Q-like intelligence discover that immortality is not necessarily a blessing?  That mortality forces urgency upon life...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel certain that a Q-like intelligence is an inevitability given enough time for a species to evolve to that level and/or merge with its technology.  The interesting question for me then becomes: What does a Q-like intelligence crave?  And would a Q-like intelligence discover that immortality is not necessarily a blessing?  That mortality forces urgency upon life&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Falgiano</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100141</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Falgiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100141</guid>
		<description>That is an interesting notion.  You&#039;d have to be nearly godlike to hack the universe computer.  I&#039;ve speculated that advanced civilizations that have come before us may have had the same notion, but for some reason they have apparently not succeeded.  Or were not allowed to succeed.  Looking back through time with our telescopes shows consistency in universal physical laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is an interesting notion.  You&#8217;d have to be nearly godlike to hack the universe computer.  I&#8217;ve speculated that advanced civilizations that have come before us may have had the same notion, but for some reason they have apparently not succeeded.  Or were not allowed to succeed.  Looking back through time with our telescopes shows consistency in universal physical laws.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Klaatu</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100127</link>
		<dc:creator>Klaatu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100127</guid>
		<description>Physics is not doomed...I have confirmed that fact with
the Intelligent Designer herself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Physics is not doomed&#8230;I have confirmed that fact with<br />
the Intelligent Designer herself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mortran</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100086</link>
		<dc:creator>Mortran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100086</guid>
		<description>This is exactly the same theory that Pythagoras had 2500 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is exactly the same theory that Pythagoras had 2500 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: MatthewQ</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100061</link>
		<dc:creator>MatthewQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 13:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100061</guid>
		<description>What if there are no supernatural gods? Just natural ones?

Serious question: What would natural (non-supernatural) gods pray to?

What would a Turing test for godhood look like? Would the test look different depending on the level of the species administering it? I think it would. So, like the term &#039;primitive&#039; the opposite term &#039;god&#039; is a relative term.

I went throughMax Tegmark&#039;s website last night, searching for more. Read his papers. Interesting stuff. He&#039;s pushing extreme Platonism. He has a &#039;questions&#039; page and one of the questions had to do with the relative nature of god. His answer was interesting. He acknowledged that such creatures might exist in his Level IV reality.

Personally, I think, depending on how you defined the term, they almost certainly exist in our own (Iain Banks-like &#039;Minds&#039; from his Culture novels or something similar to Q from Star Trek). Maybe even in our own galaxy.

I have been a believer in such a Level IV reality most of my life. I have never worked out in my head whether it implies a creator or not. I am agnostic on the question. But I always remind myself- based on the sliding scale Turing test for godhood- I wouldn&#039;t know the difference in &#039;THE god&#039; and just a mere &#039;god minus 1&#039;. It&#039;s a moot question. We&#039;ll never break through our own local membrane to be able to properly investigate the problem.

We can only hope that if our own existence happens to be running on the equivalent of an MP3 player of some hyper-dimensional teenager he&#039;ll remember to keep the batteries charged and not delete us in favour of the latest music craze.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if there are no supernatural gods? Just natural ones?</p>
<p>Serious question: What would natural (non-supernatural) gods pray to?</p>
<p>What would a Turing test for godhood look like? Would the test look different depending on the level of the species administering it? I think it would. So, like the term &#8216;primitive&#8217; the opposite term &#8216;god&#8217; is a relative term.</p>
<p>I went throughMax Tegmark&#8217;s website last night, searching for more. Read his papers. Interesting stuff. He&#8217;s pushing extreme Platonism. He has a &#8216;questions&#8217; page and one of the questions had to do with the relative nature of god. His answer was interesting. He acknowledged that such creatures might exist in his Level IV reality.</p>
<p>Personally, I think, depending on how you defined the term, they almost certainly exist in our own (Iain Banks-like &#8216;Minds&#8217; from his Culture novels or something similar to Q from Star Trek). Maybe even in our own galaxy.</p>
<p>I have been a believer in such a Level IV reality most of my life. I have never worked out in my head whether it implies a creator or not. I am agnostic on the question. But I always remind myself- based on the sliding scale Turing test for godhood- I wouldn&#8217;t know the difference in &#8216;THE god&#8217; and just a mere &#8216;god minus 1&#8242;. It&#8217;s a moot question. We&#8217;ll never break through our own local membrane to be able to properly investigate the problem.</p>
<p>We can only hope that if our own existence happens to be running on the equivalent of an MP3 player of some hyper-dimensional teenager he&#8217;ll remember to keep the batteries charged and not delete us in favour of the latest music craze.</p>
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		<title>By: H.K. Fauskanger</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100042</link>
		<dc:creator>H.K. Fauskanger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 10:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100042</guid>
		<description>Wow ... cabbala meets Einstein! Not sure it does justice to either ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8230; cabbala meets Einstein! Not sure it does justice to either &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ale</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-100011</link>
		<dc:creator>Ale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-100011</guid>
		<description>Reductionism deny the pluralism of identities.  Reduce the plurality to only one criterion: ethnos, culture, religion… This was and is today too the persuasion  of uniqueness, of superiority, regarding one civilization , one culture,  values and principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reductionism deny the pluralism of identities.  Reduce the plurality to only one criterion: ethnos, culture, religion… This was and is today too the persuasion  of uniqueness, of superiority, regarding one civilization , one culture,  values and principles.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonardo Arenas</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99996</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonardo Arenas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99996</guid>
		<description>There is the &#039;Ultimate Knowledge&quot; that is beyond human knowledge (science, mathematics nature&#039;s physics, contemporary technology, human philosophy, psychology, logic, quantum mechanics genetics engineering, space/cosmic projects, etc., etc,. you name it...) Human knowledge is just so limited by what the human faculties can access to generate new ideas, inventions using his limited knowledge, experience education and so forth. All these ideas and inventions only relate to his physical environment that his faculties can reach, sense and imagine. If man want&#039;s to expand this limited knowledge, he must &quot;connect&quot; to the originator of this &quot;Ultimate Knowledge&quot; - One who created him and the &#039;infinite universe&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is the &#8216;Ultimate Knowledge&#8221; that is beyond human knowledge (science, mathematics nature&#8217;s physics, contemporary technology, human philosophy, psychology, logic, quantum mechanics genetics engineering, space/cosmic projects, etc., etc,. you name it&#8230;) Human knowledge is just so limited by what the human faculties can access to generate new ideas, inventions using his limited knowledge, experience education and so forth. All these ideas and inventions only relate to his physical environment that his faculties can reach, sense and imagine. If man want&#8217;s to expand this limited knowledge, he must &#8220;connect&#8221; to the originator of this &#8220;Ultimate Knowledge&#8221; &#8211; One who created him and the &#8216;infinite universe&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99990</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99990</guid>
		<description>&quot;... because the universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in the a 4-dimensional space (the “Multiverse”).&quot;
I wish to add: In the &quot;balloon&quot; analogy, the universe is a 3-dimensional object (a sphere) with 2-dimensional entities (galaxies, stars and other structures) located on its surface. But it is (at most) an analogy, not an accurate description of the topology of *our universe*.
Our universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in a 4-dimensional space. 

This is similar to how, in a 4-dimensional universe*, a *hypercube* is equivalent to *cube* in the 3-dimensional universe. (For more info on hypercube, please read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hypercube )
Despite being *equivalent* (perhaps, in Formal Mathematics, the mathematicians use another adjective), a *hypercube* is *very* different from a 3-dimensional cube.
For example: a *cube* consists of 6 *faces*, but a *hypercube* have 8 *face-cubes* (Hypercube is a 4-dimensional &quot;Polychoron&quot;, its equivalent of faces in a 3-dimensional &quot;polyhedron&quot; (in this case, cube)).
This is the precise reason I said &quot;this is not a very accurate analogy&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; because the universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in the a 4-dimensional space (the “Multiverse”).&#8221;<br />
I wish to add: In the &#8220;balloon&#8221; analogy, the universe is a 3-dimensional object (a sphere) with 2-dimensional entities (galaxies, stars and other structures) located on its surface. But it is (at most) an analogy, not an accurate description of the topology of *our universe*.<br />
Our universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in a 4-dimensional space. </p>
<p>This is similar to how, in a 4-dimensional universe*, a *hypercube* is equivalent to *cube* in the 3-dimensional universe. (For more info on hypercube, please read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/hypercube )<br />
Despite being *equivalent* (perhaps, in Formal Mathematics, the mathematicians use another adjective), a *hypercube* is *very* different from a 3-dimensional cube.<br />
For example: a *cube* consists of 6 *faces*, but a *hypercube* have 8 *face-cubes* (Hypercube is a 4-dimensional &#8220;Polychoron&#8221;, its equivalent of faces in a 3-dimensional &#8220;polyhedron&#8221; (in this case, cube)).<br />
This is the precise reason I said &#8220;this is not a very accurate analogy&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99984</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 06:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99984</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the reply, Dan. 
&quot;(Pi is) perhaps dependent on the curvature of the universe&quot;.
Thanks for telling that idea.
I am reminded of the (very much cliched) analogy of *inflation of Universe* to the inflation of balloons. But, of course, that is not a very accurate analogy, because the universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in the a 4-dimensional space (the &quot;Multiverse&quot;). 
But, there is a more *absolute* definition of Pi: 
Given the coordinates a point O (on a idealized, perfectly flat 2-dimensional plane) and a certain distance (N units), plot all points being N units away from O.
These points should form a closed curve: a circle (a perfect circle unaffected by any *space curvature* of the physical universe).
A circle in the physical universe is *not* perfect because of the aforementioned curvatures (of the surface it is drawn on and of the universe) and the fact that space is *pixelated* at Planck-scale.
But a mathematical idealization is perfect. And the conventionally known Pi (one obtainable from the Gregory series and other infinite sum series or infinite product series) is the circumference-to-diameter ratio (Pi) obtained from such a perfect circle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the reply, Dan.<br />
&#8220;(Pi is) perhaps dependent on the curvature of the universe&#8221;.<br />
Thanks for telling that idea.<br />
I am reminded of the (very much cliched) analogy of *inflation of Universe* to the inflation of balloons. But, of course, that is not a very accurate analogy, because the universe is a *sphere-equivalent* in the a 4-dimensional space (the &#8220;Multiverse&#8221;).<br />
But, there is a more *absolute* definition of Pi:<br />
Given the coordinates a point O (on a idealized, perfectly flat 2-dimensional plane) and a certain distance (N units), plot all points being N units away from O.<br />
These points should form a closed curve: a circle (a perfect circle unaffected by any *space curvature* of the physical universe).<br />
A circle in the physical universe is *not* perfect because of the aforementioned curvatures (of the surface it is drawn on and of the universe) and the fact that space is *pixelated* at Planck-scale.<br />
But a mathematical idealization is perfect. And the conventionally known Pi (one obtainable from the Gregory series and other infinite sum series or infinite product series) is the circumference-to-diameter ratio (Pi) obtained from such a perfect circle.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99969</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99969</guid>
		<description>I am reminded of the theory (adhered by some scientists) stating that:
biological brains (those of animals) utilizes quantum mechanics and is (at least partially) the basis of some aspects of human intelligence.

If this theory (or other similar theories) is true, we will know that human brains are *at least partially* quantum computers and, with proper trainings (or even physical augmentations, such as cyborg-izations) we can exploit the powerful *quantum computing*-enabled abilities (which is supposedly more powerful than classical computers).

It would be great if developers of augmented-reality hardwares can include (pre-install) graphic-calculator-softwares in their new products.

I as well think that we need a new company (or perhaps non-profit group) to manufacture and distribute (preferably in large numbers) graphic calculators similar to TI-83, but priced much lower than available TI-83 products (which, in my opinion, are very over-priced).
Distribution of low-price graphic calculators would greatly benefit not only education, but also enpower people daily lives. 
Perhaps *Grassroot-based* self-motivated science projects will increase in numbers because of such low-price graphic calculators.
The quality of their research can also be improved (if machines that produce mathematical graphs can be of a lower price and become more ubiquitous).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reminded of the theory (adhered by some scientists) stating that:<br />
biological brains (those of animals) utilizes quantum mechanics and is (at least partially) the basis of some aspects of human intelligence.</p>
<p>If this theory (or other similar theories) is true, we will know that human brains are *at least partially* quantum computers and, with proper trainings (or even physical augmentations, such as cyborg-izations) we can exploit the powerful *quantum computing*-enabled abilities (which is supposedly more powerful than classical computers).</p>
<p>It would be great if developers of augmented-reality hardwares can include (pre-install) graphic-calculator-softwares in their new products.</p>
<p>I as well think that we need a new company (or perhaps non-profit group) to manufacture and distribute (preferably in large numbers) graphic calculators similar to TI-83, but priced much lower than available TI-83 products (which, in my opinion, are very over-priced).<br />
Distribution of low-price graphic calculators would greatly benefit not only education, but also enpower people daily lives.<br />
Perhaps *Grassroot-based* self-motivated science projects will increase in numbers because of such low-price graphic calculators.<br />
The quality of their research can also be improved (if machines that produce mathematical graphs can be of a lower price and become more ubiquitous).</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99967</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99967</guid>
		<description>If I understand right, such a message, and all others, have to be buried within pi, if you search far enough, know what you&#039;re looking for and your computer can reject all close similarities.

Is pi perhaps dependent on the curvature of the universe, as in circles drawn on the surface of the earth, and we locally only see a very small example of that curvature here? Then designers of different universes could have different messages prominently displayed. But how could such messages be accurately converted to meaningful information?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I understand right, such a message, and all others, have to be buried within pi, if you search far enough, know what you&#8217;re looking for and your computer can reject all close similarities.</p>
<p>Is pi perhaps dependent on the curvature of the universe, as in circles drawn on the surface of the earth, and we locally only see a very small example of that curvature here? Then designers of different universes could have different messages prominently displayed. But how could such messages be accurately converted to meaningful information?</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99966</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 05:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99966</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I am wrong, but I guess &quot;theory of the Whole&quot; means:
A framework (and perhaps classification system) for studying the *emergent properties* that appear when multiple &quot;mathematically simple/trivial&quot; objects (such as particles and fundamental forces in physics) are in vicinity and are potentially capable of interacting with each other. To me, this somehow resembles the studying of patterns within cellular automata. 
If my interpretation is not the same as yours, Ale, please correct me. 
I will be glad to hear from you. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I am wrong, but I guess &#8220;theory of the Whole&#8221; means:<br />
A framework (and perhaps classification system) for studying the *emergent properties* that appear when multiple &#8220;mathematically simple/trivial&#8221; objects (such as particles and fundamental forces in physics) are in vicinity and are potentially capable of interacting with each other. To me, this somehow resembles the studying of patterns within cellular automata.<br />
If my interpretation is not the same as yours, Ale, please correct me.<br />
I will be glad to hear from you. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: WeakestLink</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99959</link>
		<dc:creator>WeakestLink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99959</guid>
		<description>It is held together by asterisks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is held together by asterisks.</p>
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		<title>By: SmartAndSober</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/do-we-live-inside-a-mathematical-equation/comment-page-1#comment-99957</link>
		<dc:creator>SmartAndSober</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2013 04:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=180951#comment-99957</guid>
		<description>&quot;The information band width of our universe seems to be the speed of light squared.&quot; I find this interesting. May you, Tyler Dresden, give me (and the rest of us) more information on the &quot;information band-width&quot;? Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The information band width of our universe seems to be the speed of light squared.&#8221; I find this interesting. May you, Tyler Dresden, give me (and the rest of us) more information on the &#8220;information band-width&#8221;? Thank you.</p>
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