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	<title>Comments on: Finding ET may require giant robotic leap</title>
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	<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap</link>
	<description>Accelerating Intelligence</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-16649</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2012 20:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-16649</guid>
		<description>This is just one invention away and it would enable us to ascend into space of unlimited resources relieving this planet and our selves of the struggle of competing of the recourses. 
If just someone could invent a solar powered robot, combined with a 3d printer, made out nothing but lunar dust.
The robot should collect the lunar dust as the raw material for the printer.
It needs to be able to run on solar power and the entire robot with solar cells, processors and circuits should be made out of lunar dust. 
I don’t think it is completely unrealistic. It’s not like we’re trying to invent warp drives or stargates or anything. Just a robot made out of lunar dust that can reproduce.
Arrange a completion. The first group that invents this should win a money prize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is just one invention away and it would enable us to ascend into space of unlimited resources relieving this planet and our selves of the struggle of competing of the recourses.<br />
If just someone could invent a solar powered robot, combined with a 3d printer, made out nothing but lunar dust.<br />
The robot should collect the lunar dust as the raw material for the printer.<br />
It needs to be able to run on solar power and the entire robot with solar cells, processors and circuits should be made out of lunar dust.<br />
I don’t think it is completely unrealistic. It’s not like we’re trying to invent warp drives or stargates or anything. Just a robot made out of lunar dust that can reproduce.<br />
Arrange a completion. The first group that invents this should win a money prize.</p>
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		<title>By: seeker</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14231</link>
		<dc:creator>seeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14231</guid>
		<description>There are planty of autonomous robots in Japan, they were used in Fukushim, there are two models - &quot;GrAndPa 1.0&quot; and &quot;OldMaN 2.0&quot;, unfortunately they can&#039;t salf-replicate, but we going to have them a lot due to aging population. We can have two birds with one stone - universe exploration done by those robots and improving demographic structure of our societies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are planty of autonomous robots in Japan, they were used in Fukushim, there are two models &#8211; &#8220;GrAndPa 1.0&#8243; and &#8220;OldMaN 2.0&#8243;, unfortunately they can&#8217;t salf-replicate, but we going to have them a lot due to aging population. We can have two birds with one stone &#8211; universe exploration done by those robots and improving demographic structure of our societies.</p>
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		<title>By: seeker</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14228</link>
		<dc:creator>seeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2012 08:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14228</guid>
		<description>question from sceptic : what is the size of subsystem of economic system which allows us to replicate tracks ? 
(tracks are definitly a part of system of making tracks)

I&#039;ve heard that Someone have counted number of firms involved in that process, and on average,  is about 10,000 frims (to the level of electrical plants, mines, processors)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>question from sceptic : what is the size of subsystem of economic system which allows us to replicate tracks ?<br />
(tracks are definitly a part of system of making tracks)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard that Someone have counted number of firms involved in that process, and on average,  is about 10,000 frims (to the level of electrical plants, mines, processors)</p>
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		<title>By: Guillermo</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14184</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillermo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14184</guid>
		<description>Well I dont see why we couldnt create a group of robots that could work together to create a mining station in a nearby asteroid to get metals and water. They will work together to create a temporary smelting and asembling system and then use then use the water as the fuel for the next generation. BTW this is the actual plan by Planetary Resources and current advances in autonomy will most probably allow for this in a few decades. It&#039;s hard but very possible!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I dont see why we couldnt create a group of robots that could work together to create a mining station in a nearby asteroid to get metals and water. They will work together to create a temporary smelting and asembling system and then use then use the water as the fuel for the next generation. BTW this is the actual plan by Planetary Resources and current advances in autonomy will most probably allow for this in a few decades. It&#8217;s hard but very possible!</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14175</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14175</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s called &quot;seeding the galaxy&quot;. It might be that there is very little number of(or none at all) fragile ecosystems in the universe. A expansive technological civilization will have to go build them in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s called &#8220;seeding the galaxy&#8221;. It might be that there is very little number of(or none at all) fragile ecosystems in the universe. A expansive technological civilization will have to go build them in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Rybski</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14161</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Rybski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14161</guid>
		<description>Granted, but then they all choose to be remain covert?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Granted, but then they all choose to be remain covert?</p>
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		<title>By: george</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14158</link>
		<dc:creator>george</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14158</guid>
		<description>i have a simple question, is self-replication controllable at any point..? of course it will be an exponential process we will pollute the galaxy  and maybe just maybe bring microbes and viruses to fresh fragile ecosystems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have a simple question, is self-replication controllable at any point..? of course it will be an exponential process we will pollute the galaxy  and maybe just maybe bring microbes and viruses to fresh fragile ecosystems.</p>
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		<title>By: Snaz</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14155</link>
		<dc:creator>Snaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 10:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14155</guid>
		<description>The universe is 13.7 billion years old.  A von Neuman machine sweep would take less than a million years for the Milky Way.  The odds that no other race has done it, and then that there would be multiple waves in a single million year time period?  Trivial.  There are a lot of things that it turns out we had to have or had to have happen in order to be here.  No single one may be a showstopper but like grains of rice doubling across a chessboard, they grow exponentially.  True that each of them might have workarounds, theoretically, but those I&#039;ve seen are orders of magnitude less likely still.  Figured this way it is easy to get odds of one race, as far as long as we are, arising once every 750,000 galaxies or so.  Even if it is not that unlikely, there is also starting to be strong evidence, based on relative metallicity and placement in the galaxy, that we were already on the fast track to get here and have a gotten as much as a two billion year headstart on any potential neighbors.  If it seems unlikely that we are the only or the first race in our galaxy, perhaps that is because there never is a second once the first has arisen and expanded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The universe is 13.7 billion years old.  A von Neuman machine sweep would take less than a million years for the Milky Way.  The odds that no other race has done it, and then that there would be multiple waves in a single million year time period?  Trivial.  There are a lot of things that it turns out we had to have or had to have happen in order to be here.  No single one may be a showstopper but like grains of rice doubling across a chessboard, they grow exponentially.  True that each of them might have workarounds, theoretically, but those I&#8217;ve seen are orders of magnitude less likely still.  Figured this way it is easy to get odds of one race, as far as long as we are, arising once every 750,000 galaxies or so.  Even if it is not that unlikely, there is also starting to be strong evidence, based on relative metallicity and placement in the galaxy, that we were already on the fast track to get here and have a gotten as much as a two billion year headstart on any potential neighbors.  If it seems unlikely that we are the only or the first race in our galaxy, perhaps that is because there never is a second once the first has arisen and expanded.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacko</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14129</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 21:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14129</guid>
		<description>By extension, the probability is that there is a near-lightspeed wave coming at us from each and every technologically evolved civilization in the universe.  Each of these waves is evolving at a dizzying rate as it rolls outward from home, consuming resources along the way, programmed to evolve as quickly as possible.  Each wave will very likely view any other wave it encounters as competitive (because they WILL be), and so every wave will represent a weapons system.  It then stands to reason that any early technologies encountered will be spontaneously assimilated into the technology matrix of the first wave to encounter them.  Our only chance of survival is to be the first wave.  Any other precept on the matter is foolhardy.  But technology emanating from us in our wave will be of the same will to survive, and so will have to be designed to be as aggressive as possible.  It&#039;ll come down to resources for technological development.  The strongest technology will generally want to consume everything in its path to assure its own survival.  To borrow a pretty good movie out-take, &quot;There can be only one...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By extension, the probability is that there is a near-lightspeed wave coming at us from each and every technologically evolved civilization in the universe.  Each of these waves is evolving at a dizzying rate as it rolls outward from home, consuming resources along the way, programmed to evolve as quickly as possible.  Each wave will very likely view any other wave it encounters as competitive (because they WILL be), and so every wave will represent a weapons system.  It then stands to reason that any early technologies encountered will be spontaneously assimilated into the technology matrix of the first wave to encounter them.  Our only chance of survival is to be the first wave.  Any other precept on the matter is foolhardy.  But technology emanating from us in our wave will be of the same will to survive, and so will have to be designed to be as aggressive as possible.  It&#8217;ll come down to resources for technological development.  The strongest technology will generally want to consume everything in its path to assure its own survival.  To borrow a pretty good movie out-take, &#8220;There can be only one&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Roland Lemmers</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14121</link>
		<dc:creator>Roland Lemmers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14121</guid>
		<description>If there are other civilizations and they are advanced enough to do interstellar travel they most likely can build with individual atoms and molecules. It just might be that they are in the dust in your livingroom. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there are other civilizations and they are advanced enough to do interstellar travel they most likely can build with individual atoms and molecules. It just might be that they are in the dust in your livingroom. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14112</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14112</guid>
		<description>Fermi paradox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fermi paradox</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14111</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14111</guid>
		<description>&quot;Autonomous, self-replicating robots — exobots — are the way to explore the universe. ... Mathews ...  notes that we have the technology to create these exobots now, except for a compact power source.&quot;

Mathews must be living on that ET planet he&#039;s looking to find. Since when do we have the technology to launch an &quot;exobot&quot; that is self-replicating and autonomous? Able to do such things as to create new CPUs, memory chips, etc.; mine and smelt raw materials? Refine the materials to required specs for use in making another such &quot;exobot&quot;?

And then what of replicative failure?  Copies won&#039;t be exact, meaning successive generations are increasingly likely to fail - the same problem we allegedly face with cloning ad infinitum.

Let&#039;s not forget that getting the first one of these things on its way to begin with isn&#039;t going to be cheap and probably would dwarf the annual budgets of most if not all countries of the world.

Show me a design for a portable mining/smelting/materials preparation facility smaller than a small city and we can talk.  But that is just the starting point.  Every one of those &quot;replicants&quot; will need their own power source to continue.  Or will the first one be carrying all the spares in its back pocket?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Autonomous, self-replicating robots — exobots — are the way to explore the universe. &#8230; Mathews &#8230;  notes that we have the technology to create these exobots now, except for a compact power source.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mathews must be living on that ET planet he&#8217;s looking to find. Since when do we have the technology to launch an &#8220;exobot&#8221; that is self-replicating and autonomous? Able to do such things as to create new CPUs, memory chips, etc.; mine and smelt raw materials? Refine the materials to required specs for use in making another such &#8220;exobot&#8221;?</p>
<p>And then what of replicative failure?  Copies won&#8217;t be exact, meaning successive generations are increasingly likely to fail &#8211; the same problem we allegedly face with cloning ad infinitum.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that getting the first one of these things on its way to begin with isn&#8217;t going to be cheap and probably would dwarf the annual budgets of most if not all countries of the world.</p>
<p>Show me a design for a portable mining/smelting/materials preparation facility smaller than a small city and we can talk.  But that is just the starting point.  Every one of those &#8220;replicants&#8221; will need their own power source to continue.  Or will the first one be carrying all the spares in its back pocket?</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14104</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14104</guid>
		<description>Self-replication will not be feasible until robots can be at least partially grown rather than manufactured. Otherwise, are the fleets of exobots going to prospect for minerals and develop mines to obtain the necessary ores to build automated systems? Will they smelt these ores and bring them to the high levels of purity required to build electronic circuits? But of course you cannot smelt ores without a lot of high-energy fuel. The difficulties just go on and on.

Unless the robots are actually in some sense alive, they will never be able to reproduce themselves in distant places without human help. Even then it is going to be very tough, because conditions that can support any sort of life -- even artificial life -- are very rare.

A better method might be to send out something like a series of cluster bombs, each one being a large already &quot;pregnant&quot; mother-robot pre-loaded with daughter robots that can be released along the way. Additional generations of even tinier granddaughter and great-granddaughter machines would be built into the daughters so the process could be extended. The final generation might consist of nanobots. If the shelf-life of these successively smaller machines can be assured, generations of offspring could continue exploration for many centuries without additional material assistance. Human help via communication channels would probably continue to be useful.

In fact, this kind of technology is already being developed and tested on our own planet. Within a few months or years, autonomous unmanned vehicles will surely be releasing daughter generations in large quantities all over the world. Extreme levels of electronic miniaturization and high-volume production, coupled with the availability of inexpensive solar power cells, make this scenario inevitable. 

For perspective, consider that silicon integrated circuits are already being manufactured with line widths so small that an ordinary rod-shaped bacterium, say one micron wide by two microns long, accidentally dropped onto a chip, would cover thousands of memory cells.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Self-replication will not be feasible until robots can be at least partially grown rather than manufactured. Otherwise, are the fleets of exobots going to prospect for minerals and develop mines to obtain the necessary ores to build automated systems? Will they smelt these ores and bring them to the high levels of purity required to build electronic circuits? But of course you cannot smelt ores without a lot of high-energy fuel. The difficulties just go on and on.</p>
<p>Unless the robots are actually in some sense alive, they will never be able to reproduce themselves in distant places without human help. Even then it is going to be very tough, because conditions that can support any sort of life &#8212; even artificial life &#8212; are very rare.</p>
<p>A better method might be to send out something like a series of cluster bombs, each one being a large already &#8220;pregnant&#8221; mother-robot pre-loaded with daughter robots that can be released along the way. Additional generations of even tinier granddaughter and great-granddaughter machines would be built into the daughters so the process could be extended. The final generation might consist of nanobots. If the shelf-life of these successively smaller machines can be assured, generations of offspring could continue exploration for many centuries without additional material assistance. Human help via communication channels would probably continue to be useful.</p>
<p>In fact, this kind of technology is already being developed and tested on our own planet. Within a few months or years, autonomous unmanned vehicles will surely be releasing daughter generations in large quantities all over the world. Extreme levels of electronic miniaturization and high-volume production, coupled with the availability of inexpensive solar power cells, make this scenario inevitable. </p>
<p>For perspective, consider that silicon integrated circuits are already being manufactured with line widths so small that an ordinary rod-shaped bacterium, say one micron wide by two microns long, accidentally dropped onto a chip, would cover thousands of memory cells.</p>
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		<title>By: Tuco</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14101</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 15:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14101</guid>
		<description>Yeah, well, chances are that interstellar space travel could even turn out as being impossible, actually.
We all hope that&#039;s not the case, sure, but let&#039;s face it, that&#039;s what physics suggest so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, well, chances are that interstellar space travel could even turn out as being impossible, actually.<br />
We all hope that&#8217;s not the case, sure, but let&#8217;s face it, that&#8217;s what physics suggest so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Sittel</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14096</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Sittel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 14:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14096</guid>
		<description>OK, if the other civilizations are in the same predicament we are, needing robots to explore space, etc.  Then why aren&#039;t some of their robots visiting us here?  It would be easy for another civilization to be just 10,000 years ahead of us in technology, they would have reached singularity 9,970 years ago and should have been here by now.  Unless we are the very first in the galaxy?  I doubt that.  All this means that space travel is very difficult over long distances and there are no short cuts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, if the other civilizations are in the same predicament we are, needing robots to explore space, etc.  Then why aren&#8217;t some of their robots visiting us here?  It would be easy for another civilization to be just 10,000 years ahead of us in technology, they would have reached singularity 9,970 years ago and should have been here by now.  Unless we are the very first in the galaxy?  I doubt that.  All this means that space travel is very difficult over long distances and there are no short cuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/finding-et-may-require-giant-robotic-leap/comment-page-1#comment-14090</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=149131#comment-14090</guid>
		<description>Von Neumann Machines. Not a new concept. Makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Von Neumann Machines. Not a new concept. Makes sense.</p>
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