Just a simple question. If the Black Hole Era is supposed to last 10^100 years what happens after that? Surely us immortal beings need to consider this.
What is after the Black Hole Era?
(36 posts) (11 voices)-
After that comes the dark era, when all useful energy in this universe is utterly spent. The temperature of the universe reaches a uniform 10^-29k, so there is no temperature difference which is required to perform any kind of work. The universe is dead. If dark energy keeps in increasing, some speculate that eventually spacetime itself will be ripped asunder.
But good news! It is not 10^100 years but 10^117, so that gives us more time to devise an escape plan.
Posted 3 months ago # -
asimov1
MemberA1 Extropia DaSilva......thank for the extra zeros.....lets hope we dont need them lol !
one idea is that as our spacetime stretches thin to near nothingness or is rent asunder this creates a hard vacuum out of which quantum probabilities will be allowed to bubble into existence once again
imagine a megaverse of expanding bubbles that either go pop or dilute themselves so much that they fade from reality all together and in doing so cast their potential back into the universal ocean
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Posted 3 months ago #
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There are some highly speculative ideas from the far fringes of theoretical science (but still definitely not pseudoscience) in which black holes can be used either as wormholes to parallel universe, or even as devices for creating 'baby' universes. There is even speculation that some kind of technology could be injected into the black hole which would be capable of resurrecting the civilisation in the baby universe. They managed to calculate the odds of this technique being successful, and the chances of anything passing through a wormhole rather than being destroyed is.... 10^122 to 1.
:(
I have no idea how space time can be ripped apart. Try googling 'big rip' and looking for any relevant information. I do know that Assimov is right in saying the proponents of big rip claim it will effectively reset entropy and that each fragment of space time will expand into its own universe, get ripped...and so on ad infinitum.
Posted 3 months ago # -
PJT
MemberThere is even speculation that some kind of technology could be injected into the black hole which would be capable of resurrecting the civilisation in the baby universe. They managed to calculate the odds of this technique being successful, and the chances of anything passing through a wormhole rather than being destroyed is.... 10^122 to 1.
Then we should rejoice! If we inject this technology into several black holes at every second starting from the beginning of the black hole era until its end, success is surely guaranteed, is it not?
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years ago somebody invented a software program that could write its own scientific papers. It would generate a title, an 'in brief' explaining the gist of the paper, and then lay out an argument leading to a conclusion, with all the graphs and equations you would expect. Actually it did not generate scientific papers, it generated gibberish that resembled the specialist language of astrophysics or whatever. No doubt an expert in that field would recognise this gibberish for what it is but a layperson would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the near impenetrable language of the papers randomly generated by this software, and that of genuine scientific papers (wish I could remember what the program was called).
I occasionally wonder if Set/AI's posts might actually be like those program's, appearing to be complex science but really just complete gibberish.
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lol- the nanostuff conspiracy theory- but since my ideas are all well referenced extentions and syntheses of the ideas of well-known scientists like Deutsch/Tipler/Wolfram/Lloyd/Tegmark/etc it would mean they were part of my conspiracy- which seems unlikely- I was taught to state speculative ideas with authority and power like Minsky or Wolfram or Tipler- but it is very likely that BHs have physics and destinies beyond anything we can envisage so any predictions about the fate of the universe are very iffy- even the death of matter in the Degenerate Matter Era is based on the assumption that protons decay
But good news! It is not 10^100 years but 10^117, so that gives us more time to devise an escape plan.
how do you calculate this? there is probably an upper limit on the mass of Ultramassive Black Holes- due to Dark Energy and the physical conditions near the BH the upper mass limit is likely under a trillion solar masses - a UMBH is the longest lived entity in the universe and will evaporate in about 10^103 years - for the BH Era to last 10^117 years would require UMBHs of ten quadrillion solar masses http://xaonon.dyndns.org/hawking/
as to the Dark Era- considering the qubit nature of the event horizon- and how entanglement works outside of linear time [for example: http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.2565 ] - I think that the qubit states of the Hawking Radiation particles of evaporating black holes are in essence entangled with the qubit states of all other hawking radiation particles in all other BHs across all time- and they compute invariant of linear time for spacetime outside the horizon- so to the entropic holographic quantum computation of these horizons doesn't see the end of the universe in time- but as a space-like boundary where the Big Bang and Dark Era form the horizon of qubit interaction for an eternal quantum computation that loops or 'rotates' through time and space
Posted 3 months ago # -
Chimie
MemberExtropia DaSilva - After that comes the dark era, when all useful energy in this universe is utterly spent.
Where would that energy go? The first law of thermodynamics comes to mind.
Define useful and unuseful energy, as to me it is all energy that can be harvested and used.
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Remember that in modern cosmological thinking 'the universe' no longer refers to the totality of all things but rather a local area of hyperspace in which the inflaton field turned off and it's energy was transformed into light, heat, matter and eventually a state of uniform temperature. But this process happens not once but infinite times (which is why we call it 'eternal inflation'). IF a way can be found to escape from our region to another, the death of the universe would not equal the death of intelligence in this universe, for it would have emigrated to another, perhaps one it engineered itself (inflation seems to make such a feat possible in principle).
Posted 3 months ago # -
Chimie
MemberExtropia DaSilva - Would happen to agree with your thinking.
But, that would mean energy can flow in and out from an "universe" which makes it an open system, subject to the state of other similar systems?
I see the universes as bubbles floating around in some sort of mist. In which universe bubbles are expanding, shrinking, popping, colliding, uniting?, splitting? and what not. Would agree that there is no death for and advanced intelligence as it would know its way around the multiverse.
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Chimie, the expansion of the universe is accelerating and at some point this will create a Desitter horizon, which marks the boundary where spacetime is expanding faster than light. In quantum physics, particles and antiparticles can be created out of vacuum before coming into contact with one another and annihilating each other, but if one half of the pair disappears over the Desitter horizon, the remaining particle remains, contributing to the heat energy of this universe. This means the temperature of the universe will not fall indefinitely but instead will reach a uniform temperature. This is catastrophic for any information processing (even reversible computing if you want to output the answer rather than merely perform a calculation and then reverse the steps effectively erasing it) because you must have a temperature difference to be able to dissipate heat generated by any work.
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yeah, Chimie that is a good way of visualising eternal inflation. I am merely describing the ultimate fate of the region of the multiverse within our light horizon.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Chimie
MemberJust a thought. If this particles/anti-particles remain entangled over the Desitter horizon would there not then be the possibility that this weak attraction overtime would pull the "universe" back together when the number of particles/antiparticles exceeds an critialcal mass, so to speak?
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They do not remain entangled.
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Oh, wait, I made a mistake. once two particles are entangled they remain engangled and what affects one affects the other regardless of distance. I have never seen any theory saying entanglement can have that effect on the expansion of spacetime, but that does not mean it cannot happen. it just means I do not know if it can or not.
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After that comes the dark era, when all useful energy in this universe is utterly spent.
Where would that energy go? The first law of thermodynamics comes to mind.
Define useful and unuseful energy, as to me it is all energy that can be harvested and used.
this is one of the big problems with the current Dark Era/ Heat Death prediction- it violates all conservation laws- Tipler directly addresses this with Omega Point cosmology: he shows that regardless of accelerating expansion that spacetime must eventually slow/recollapse- however there also might be a solution with baby universes inside Black Holes
Posted 3 months ago # -
Chimie
MemberWould go with the assumption that there is some mechanism in which the universe re-collapses or is otherwise re-used. Our observations of nature indicate that nature never wastes anything, all is recycled and that nature is energy efficient. To me it makes sense that this carries out thru to the larger scales of phenomena as the smaller scale is a product of the larger scale.
Does anyone know is our galaxy stable in size? Or is it shrinking or expanding?
Posted 3 months ago # -
PJT
Memberthis is one of the big problems with the current Dark Era/ Heat Death prediction- it violates all conservation laws- Tipler directly addresses this with Omega Point cosmology: he shows that regardless of accelerating expansion that spacetime must eventually slow/recollapse- however there also might be a solution with baby universes inside Black Holes
If spacetime eventually slows and recollapses doesn't that mean that we simply go backwards in time? What sort of solution would overcome this? If we solve a problem it would be surely be made unsolved by the reversal of entropy wouldn't it?
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collapse does not reverse the arrow of time due to ENTROPY- in order for broken objects to reassemble and dead things to resussitate entails vastly more possible degrees of freedom for particles than when the objects fell apart- so they can't retrace their steps in reverse- at least in theory- but it is possible that the universe is a reversable computation and that entropy is pseudorandom with only one output in any direction of time - so time might reverse- but right now evidence favors the former outlook
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Entropy is symmetric with respect to time, so regardless of whether times runs forwards or backwards things tend toward disorder. Having said that, the gravitational attraction of the omega point at the end of the the Big Crunch would produce conditions of low entropy.
Posted 3 months ago # -
PJT
MemberSo if the arrow of time stays the same then how does this all end? Do we still perceive linear forward time in a universe that's undergoing a crunch? Does it get faster? I thought entropy was required for life to exist, doesn't a reversal of entropy mean that everything dies instantly?
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I do not know the answers, sorry.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Chimie
MemberThe arrow of time seems to follow one constant, it moves and I doubt it can be stopped.
No system is isolated, a system can be independent, but it is still subject to forces known or unknown.
If we agree this is a multiverse, then it would be benefical to understand the finite properties of a universe that is part of multiverse. There is interaction between the systems and this ensures the continuum of all systems, as energy seems to balance itself out on the large scale.
As /:set\AI here pointed out a galaxy is not an isolated system, in my view the same could be said about unverses.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Spud100
MemberI bet a physicist could shoot down this comment, but, as with biocentrism, maybe a mind, an observer, has an effect on the mass of swirling probabilities and virtual particles? This may change how things actualize, crystalize, like in restrocausation..a direction or observation from the distant future influencing us all, and the universe. Maybe?
Meanwhile...
The Cuervo Gold
The fine Colombian
Makes tonight a wonderful thingPosted 3 months ago #
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