Comments on: Future food for cities http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities Accelerating Intelligence Fri, 24 May 2013 19:32:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Ariane http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities/comment-page-1#comment-1104 Ariane Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:48:14 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=98600#comment-1104 Some things that popped into my head while reading this.. -Most fertilizers are synthetic, especially those where one needs to adjust the levels of individual NPK contents. Unfortunately most synthetic fertilizers are made from fossil fuel. As the plants are not grown in soil they would need more fertilizer then "regular" plants, making this pretty much unsustainable. -Alot of plants actually cannot be grown in this fashion, fruits (most growing on trees and bushes), aswell as most root vegetables cannot be grown aeroponically (root vegetables because the roots develop as seen in the picture above, for carrots and most other root vegetables, where one main root is prefered this would not work) Of course dwarf varieties of tomatoes and cucumbers could be grown in this fashion, but dwarf varieties still become at the minimum 8 inches tall for tomatoes, and at such sizes only grow a handful of cherry tomatoes. Say your growing box is the size of an average refridgerator (130 cm tall) this would fit only 6 plants, assuming they are all as small as the smallest dward variety of tomato plants.. well, I don't know about you guys, but not counting the time those plants need to grow, that would give me food for less then a week, not including grains and meat and fruit of course. I am all for the local food trend, and even for aeroponics, but it would seem more feasible everyone with a garden would have a shed sized aeroponic building in their garden, and for everyone with no access to a garden each part of town would get a multistory building, where one could buy such produce. As for the fertilizer problem, it would seem feasible that either all organic waste is composted by for example red wriggler worms, and this worm liquid is then fed back to the plants, or the plants be combined in a hydroponic fashion with fish, where the fish are fed by the plant run off and the plants by the fish droppings. Some things that popped into my head while reading this..
-Most fertilizers are synthetic, especially those where one needs to adjust the levels of individual NPK contents. Unfortunately most synthetic fertilizers are made from fossil fuel. As the plants are not grown in soil they would need more fertilizer then “regular” plants, making this pretty much unsustainable.
-Alot of plants actually cannot be grown in this fashion, fruits (most growing on trees and bushes), aswell as most root vegetables cannot be grown aeroponically (root vegetables because the roots develop as seen in the picture above, for carrots and most other root vegetables, where one main root is prefered this would not work)
Of course dwarf varieties of tomatoes and cucumbers could be grown in this fashion, but dwarf varieties still become at the minimum 8 inches tall for tomatoes, and at such sizes only grow a handful of cherry tomatoes.
Say your growing box is the size of an average refridgerator (130 cm tall) this would fit only 6 plants, assuming they are all as small as the smallest dward variety of tomato plants..
well, I don’t know about you guys, but not counting the time those plants need to grow, that would give me food for less then a week, not including grains and meat and fruit of course.

I am all for the local food trend, and even for aeroponics, but it would seem more feasible everyone with a garden would have a shed sized aeroponic building in their garden, and for everyone with no access to a garden each part of town would get a multistory building, where one could buy such produce.
As for the fertilizer problem, it would seem feasible that either all organic waste is composted by for example red wriggler worms, and this worm liquid is then fed back to the plants, or the plants be combined in a hydroponic fashion with fish, where the fish are fed by the plant run off and the plants by the fish droppings.

]]> By: jml http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities/comment-page-1#comment-904 jml Tue, 21 Sep 2010 15:00:33 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=98600#comment-904 How do the energy requirements of this compare with the requirements of conventional farming? Obviously there are no transportation costs built directly into it, since it's local. But you are using lights powered by electricity. How does that compare with the typical energy needs of conventional farm equipment? How do the energy requirements of this compare with the requirements of conventional farming? Obviously there are no transportation costs built directly into it, since it’s local. But you are using lights powered by electricity. How does that compare with the typical energy needs of conventional farm equipment?

]]> By: disgustedandamused http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities/comment-page-1#comment-884 disgustedandamused Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:55:46 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=98600#comment-884 You're on to something here. This can be seen as a re-invention of the refrigerator, or merger of intensive gardening with the refrigerator's "crisper" compartment. I've mused over this idea before -- how to improve the state-of-the-art in kitchens by growing the food in the fridge, not just preserving what's been grown elsewhere. Like refrigeration technology, this should prove capable of extensive product development, from apartment and dorm-room versions, to suburban household sizes, to restaurant/ institutional kitchen walk-in scale operations... Grocery stores might compete with this either by adopting their own, grown-on-site-fresh produce sections, or by selling starter kits for designer varieties of fruits and veggies to be transplanted to your home grow-room. In any case, getting this to the point of customer acceptance will mean thinking of this as an appliance product. I hope that doesn't turn off too many transhumanist or sustainability types -- product design should simply mean designing technologies to meet people as we really are. For those intent on real household economic autonomy, if this can be combined with efficient water treatment (maybe water recycling as well as on-site rainwater harvesting), waste treatment (maybe a compost toilet updated with really efficient collections of recycler organisms), and food-growing tech for tissue-cultures/ meats (see articles elsewhere on this website, to start). One place where this sort of tech could be applied (and popularized): the international space station. Space stations, lunar or martian camps, as well as long-term interplanetary trips could all benefit from 100 per cent recirculating biomass/ water cycles. Not only would they be more secure, they would be far cheaper to operate. In fact, developing the tech necessary to make space habitats truly autonomous and sustainable would automatically develop the tech necessary to render nearly any place on earth similarly autonomous, sustainable, and affordable. Energy flows through, matter recirculates, information (knowledge) grows, evolves and develops. You’re on to something here. This can be seen as a re-invention of the refrigerator, or merger of intensive gardening with the refrigerator’s “crisper” compartment.
I’ve mused over this idea before — how to improve the state-of-the-art in kitchens by growing the food in the fridge, not just preserving what’s been grown elsewhere. Like refrigeration technology, this should prove capable of extensive product development, from apartment and dorm-room versions, to suburban household sizes, to restaurant/ institutional kitchen walk-in scale operations… Grocery stores might compete with this either by adopting their own, grown-on-site-fresh produce sections, or by selling starter kits for designer varieties of fruits and veggies to be transplanted to your home grow-room. In any case, getting this to the point of customer acceptance will mean thinking of this as an appliance product. I hope that doesn’t turn off too many transhumanist or sustainability types — product design should simply mean designing technologies to meet people as we really are.
For those intent on real household economic autonomy, if this can be combined with efficient water treatment (maybe water recycling as well as on-site rainwater harvesting), waste treatment (maybe a compost toilet updated with really efficient collections of recycler organisms), and food-growing tech for tissue-cultures/ meats (see articles elsewhere on this website, to start).
One place where this sort of tech could be applied (and popularized): the international space station. Space stations, lunar or martian camps, as well as long-term interplanetary trips could all benefit from 100 per cent recirculating biomass/ water cycles. Not only would they be more secure, they would be far cheaper to operate. In fact, developing the tech necessary to make space habitats truly autonomous and sustainable would automatically develop the tech necessary to render nearly any place on earth similarly autonomous, sustainable, and affordable. Energy flows through, matter recirculates, information (knowledge) grows, evolves and develops.

]]> By: LaboriousCretin http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities/comment-page-1#comment-809 LaboriousCretin Fri, 10 Sep 2010 22:05:34 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=98600#comment-809 Yep aeroponics is great. I took that from the pot growers a while back. It just need's to be easyer to clean and reuse. Plant grafting, plant mutations, and plant DNA modifications ( I.E. G.M.O.'s ) are just one factor for food in the near future. Just like vat grown organisms. But just like G.M.O.'s, solar power, wind power, recycling technology, Solar furnaces, Geothermal energy, Bio-wast reduction and energy production, and outhe rself sustaining technology, even personalized fabrication technology. You will have a hard time seling it to people, and some people will take advantage of the labbling to misslead others from the realy good stuff. Dwarf plants and high yeild plant's are great though. Basil grows great with this tech, but some other types of plants need grafting or gene modifications for this to work best. SMT LED's, high presure sodium lamps, low presure sodium lamps, florecents, OLED lighting, Argon or neon lighting, cathode tube lighting, are other factors for the growth in small areas too. Good old technology though. Also easy to do, and cheap too. Yep aeroponics is great. I took that from the pot growers a while back. It just need’s to be easyer to clean and reuse. Plant grafting, plant mutations, and plant DNA modifications ( I.E. G.M.O.’s ) are just one factor for food in the near future. Just like vat grown organisms. But just like G.M.O.’s, solar power, wind power, recycling technology, Solar furnaces, Geothermal energy, Bio-wast reduction and energy production, and outhe rself sustaining technology, even personalized fabrication technology. You will have a hard time seling it to people, and some people will take advantage of the labbling to misslead others from the realy good stuff. Dwarf plants and high yeild plant’s are great though. Basil grows great with this tech, but some other types of plants need grafting or gene modifications for this to work best. SMT LED’s, high presure sodium lamps, low presure sodium lamps, florecents, OLED lighting, Argon or neon lighting, cathode tube lighting, are other factors for the growth in small areas too. Good old technology though. Also easy to do, and cheap too.

]]> By: tyranny http://www.kurzweilai.net/future-food-for-cities/comment-page-1#comment-800 tyranny Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:19:25 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=98600#comment-800 Sounds great. But the way legislation and regulation has been going I bet Big Farma will have something to say about people growing their own food. See recent legislation regarding the Codex Alimentarius: http://www.codexalimentarius.net/web/index_en.jsp Sounds great. But the way legislation and regulation has been going I bet Big Farma will have something to say about people growing their own food. See recent legislation regarding the Codex Alimentarius: http://www.codexalimentarius.net/web/index_en.jsp

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