Iran warplane fired at US drone in early November
November 9, 2012
MQ-1 Predator drone (credit: USAF)
An Iranian warplane opened fire on an unarmed U.S. military drone conducting surveillance near Iranian airspace Nov. 1, the Pentagon said Thursday, the first such incident over the Persian Gulf and one that is all but certain to draw attention to Washington’s use of unmanned aircraft, The Washington Post reports.
The MQ-1 Predator drone returned to its base unscathed, even as the Iranian aircraft chased it away from the Islamic Republic’s borders, Pentagon spokesman George Little said Thursday, disclosing details of an incident that the Obama administration chose to keep quiet during the final stretch of the presidential campaign.
The Nov. 1 incident happened at 4:50 a.m. Eastern time, approximately 16 miles from the Iranian coastline, Little said. Under international law, national sovereignty extends for 12 nautical miles.
Comments (98)
by Charlie
Ann Peebles. I can’t stand the rain of misled peebles. Their your windows
by Dennis
Reckon this says more about the capabilities of the Iranian air force than it does anything else. When you can’t even shoot down a propeller-driven drone, you’re obviously toothless.
by Mr.X
@Dennis: It couldn’t be that they just warned you?
Btw: If I’m stronger than you, it is morally acceptable to kick your ass or make you become toothless?
by Editor
Kurzweil Accelerating Intelligence Forums Code of Conduct and Acceptable Use Agreement,
http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/code-of-conduct-acceptable-use-agreement-1
Excerpt (this policy will be enforced for all posts more firmly from now on):
“Personal attacks are not permitted. Criticize the ideas, not the people. Flaming will not be tolerated. ‘You are wrong’ is not a personal attack; ‘you are wrong because you are an idiot’ is. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Moderator’s judgment applies here.”
Comments with personal attacks will be deleted.
by Bri
@Mr.X: I have read the link posted above. I agree in full to all guidelines. If I have been sardonic or offensive to you, I apologize. I really do find you to be smart and I like much of what you write. I’m very different than you in my opinions. I would like to know yours. Let’s be civil and move on.
by Mr.X
@Bri: I guess the editor directed this at Carl.
by Mr.X
Ps: Just lets stop this.We two shouldn’t discuss politics/ or history, and maybe should avoid religion too (no shared premises = no way to agree).Nobody forces us to respond to each other.And I feel bad for “spamming” this website.
I’m partly sorry if I offended you, I must admit that some of my remarks were rather unfriendly, but I’m not the only one of us.
” I’m very different than you in my opinions. I would like to know yours. ”
You see.This is confusing.How can you know the degree of “difference” between our opinions if you don’t know mine?
Guesstimate?
I gave you a hint as to my beliefs, but you tried to fit it into your box.I can understand you (to some degree), but you won’t understand me if you can’t accept my premises temporarly.This assumes you’re being honest.
Anyway: I won’t have time to argue with you anyway, for sometime, so let’s agree to disagree and move on.Either this, or you can say what you want, since I won’t answer^^
by Carl Brooks
from england
by Carl Brooks
@ mr x from bottom… oops
by Mr.X
@Carl: ? What?
Mr.x from bottom.Interesting.You’re from England?Nice.
by Amit
To all the people engaged in a flame war over here…grow up. You are giving this website a bad name. If you cannot discuss politics without playing a ridiculous game of “My daddy’s strongest”, then please find another place to do this. Do not reduce the IQ level of this website.
by Vin
Engaging in robust free speech is grown up and more intelligent than pretentiously trying to censor opinion (or worse) because data is always useful to the intelligent. This isn’t even your website is it, Amit, so what qualifies you to dictate comment or define reputation as if you were lord and master?
by Gabriel
So long as everyone keeps a cool head, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be allowed to discuss politics — especially on a site like this with the Singularity theme which concerns and effects everything, including politics.
Let them talk — the only people who would go to a website like this, are the sort smart enough to understand tact and when to stop. Of course, that’s just my opinion and theory anyway.
by Bri
I agree. Being civil means not engaging in personal assault. If someone you are in discussion with engages in personal assaults, just don’t respond. Healthy debate on difficult issues is important. I have said on many occasions on this website that war is not the answer. Unfortunately their are lots of belligerent counties and people out there, that think it’s their way or the highway. It’s hard to show them that they aren’t seeing things clearly. We all should be tolerant and try to forgive them. Try and seek other ways for peace.
by Mr.X
@Bri: The most belligerent country is yours.
by Mr.X
It seems critizing the USA is like touching a hornet nest- you have to deal with the drones afterwards.
by Bri
Make me laugh some more. Hornets nest! What you got stung by a single bee? Russia won the war? As far as I remember they drove back the Natzi from their nation. Germany was way over extended and terribly weakened. They got to Berlin first, but the allies won back all the rest. That was the real war. Attacking Russia was one of Hitlers biggest blunders. You guys had no chance of holding onto that territory. You had already bit off more than you could chew with Africa. If we didn’t have to deal with the Japanese we would have saved your butts, and guess what? We wouldn’t have made you into a satellite like Russia did. You blame the US for being a war monger. You say that we started the war of 1812. Britain was fighting France. They put up a naval blockade of the French territories in Canada. We thought they might want to be free of British rule. That’s why the war stopped so soon. Instead of fighting the British they fought for them. They aren’t British now. Put it in context Mr.X. That was a time when all the nations of the world were grabbing land. We weren’t driven by the prospects of enlarging the US. We were fighting small battles with the British, we had just become independent 50 years earlier. That’s my life time. We thought that Canada would want to be free of British rule. Yea, we couldn’t have won our independence without the French. Like I said. The war of 1812 happened forty six years after the french helped us gain freedom. Quebec still speaks French. The British had set up a naval blockade to stop French trade across the atlantic. It was hurting our trade as well. We thought we would join the fight. At forty six years after our revolution we weren’t any great super power, duh. Your bent in hatred. If Russia really won WWII all of Germany would have been communist. Oh, we are such war mongers. What about the Berlin airlift? Talking to you is annoying. You think by using google search that your getting a real understanding. It’s a superficial as your statement that a hornets nest of comments has come your way. You cry wolf!
by Mr.X
@Bri: I can’t talk history with an idiot who doesn’t even know that Russia was only half of the Soviet union (in terms of population).
They destroyed over eighty percent of the Wehrmacht?What did you do?Nothing.
You idiot.You made us into your satellite, you lived partly through that time but seem to have noticed nothing.Google 2+8 treaty.That’s when we gained some independance.
You stole our patents and forced us to take the angry turkish youth into our country,
Google search is way better than the crap you spout, how do you expect to have a deeper understanding of history if you don’t even get the fact straight.
“If Russia really won WWII all of Germany would have been communist.”
Strawmen.Besides, you bs is not logically entailed.
You can’t even read.I said the SU not Russia, won the war.I also said I wrote it as a counterstatement to the simplictic comment of your compatriot.
“What about the Berlin airlift?”
Blabla.Couldn’t be that the propaganda effort would be wasted if you’d not acted.
“You think by using google search that your getting a real understanding.”
You can’t even spell you’re, but tell me I am superficial.
I teach you some logic: There is this thing called premise.If google shows your premises are wrong, then the rest of your reasoning is arbitrary.
Explain your over 200 military interventions in 200 years, stupid sheep.
Ps: You as a person never saved anyone.
If I annoy you, just stop answering me.You’re to stupid to understand what others write, king strawman.
Pps: I take google everytime over the stupid ramblings of some mentally impaired old fart who never even traveled outsite his country.
by Mr.X
“Attacking Russia was one of Hitlers biggest blunders. You guys had no chance of holding onto that territory. You had already bit off more than you could chew with Africa.”
Makes perfect sense, especially since Stalin was arming to launch his own invasion.Btw: Even the allies expected the SU would soon collapse.
Parts of Africa was Italian territory.
“If we didn’t have to deal with the Japanese we would have saved your butts, and guess what? ”
Sure.Without Japan we wouldn’t be at war.Maybe you should learn how to use google.And who is we, you?I’d like to see that.
About the satellite stuff: Thats why we had things like bombings organized by you in Italy so they’d stay afraid of the left.Typical American ignorance.
by Mr.X
War of 1812: Try your arrogance on the people who made this documentary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyMFtn1mIs0&feature=related
by Mr.X
2+4 treaty. Btw: you are the second one, and that you didn’t get the drone reference says all one need to know.
by Bri
@x: if your so smart why are you calling people names. I’m not calling you an idiot or stupid. How can I hold an argument when you are belligerent. I’m surprised that Amara is letting you do personal assassination of character. We us Russia and the SU interchangeably. Sorry for your conffussion.. If you think that over 80 percent of your military might was fighting in Russia, then your saying less than 20 percent was fighting the allies. Or are you saying that the whole of Germans army was deployed or destroyed in Russia. Talk about a strawman argument. If we are such a belligerent county, why haven’t we annexed Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico, Canada,Iraq,Afganistan,Kuwait. The biggest imperial power of the twentieth century was Britain. When they gave up those colonies they made th sovereign. That includes Tawain. If they want to become a part of China again, it is there right. China lost ownership when Britain won it’s wars. If Germany had won the war its newly conquered lands would be German. I agree it’s useless to talk civilly with you. You are filled with the propaganda of hatred. Our interventions weren’t the florins third Riech, that was supposed to last a thousand years. We don’t retain the sovriegnry over the countries that we have fought with. If you want to list all 200 interventions I’ll teach you what they were about, but it seems to me your not interested in learning the truth.
Just explain the eight percent of your army thing you were talking about. That sounds fascinating to me. How much was deployed there? 90%? so the allies were only fighting 10%? Did any percentage survive?something about that math sounds very strange indeed. For a country like your that tried to rule the world, you seem to be doing quite well now. Shouldn’t I be the one calling you and your country names? I mean we didn’t attack you, and despite your protests to the contrary, it seems some sixty years layer your doing very well. I guess we arent quite the bastards that you say we are, or is that a stamens argument to you.
I’ll say have a nice day and mean it. Whenever you write it I can’t quite figure out if your sincere. Sometimes I think you are, but most of the times I think you aren’t. I hope all goes well for you and your country. I hope that you can understand my points. If I am wrong I will admit to it. So far you don’t give any compelling reason for me to say you have the facts straight. Maybe you can be more civil and we can straighten out our differences. It’s hard to follow a single thread when you are so busy being mad and throwing insults.
by Mr.X
@Bri:
“if your so smart why are you calling people names. ”
First: I don’t claim to be smart.But it seems, people see that as a weakness.That’s why you mention it again and again.So now: I’m very smart, and insult people for reasons they can’t comprehend.
Second: You were the one laughing about me.
Third: Both is possible.Or do you think people like Churchill, Emerson or Wilde were dumb?
“Whenever you write it I can’t quite figure out if your sincere. Sometimes I think you are, but most of the times I think you aren’t. ”
Why?Maybe I should use more prases, like “in my opinion”?Or what do you mean?Your culture is not so “straight to the point”.
“I’m surprised that Amara is letting you do personal assassination of character.”
She is pretty much pro freedom:)
Btw:What do you mean?Wanna censor me too?
“For a country like your that tried to rule the world, you seem to be doing quite well now.”
Ruling the world?And your country is different?Btw, where is the proof you were talking about.
“If you think that over 80 percent of your military might was fighting in Russia, then your saying less than 20 percent was fighting the allies. ”
Yes.Thats what I was saying.I also provided a source.Look it up.It’s true.
“We us Russia and the SU interchangeably. ”
And why?Because ignorant people don’t know anything about other countries.
“If we are such a belligerent county, why haven’t we annexed Puerto Rico, Cuba, Mexico, Canada,Iraq,Afganistan,Kuwait”
You think this is necessary to be belligerent?Annexing countries?
I guess Japan wasn’t belligerent towards China, it made puppet states instead.Btw: Cuba fought off your invasions.
“China lost ownership when Britain won it’s wars.”
If force makes right, why moralize if China builds up his military to take it back?Or, don’t you want a rematch, if your side won once?
“We don’t retain the sovriegnry over the countries that we have fought with.”
Really?Japan and my country begg to differ.
“So far you don’t give any compelling reason for me to say you have the facts straight.”
See, you are insulting me again.Maybe this is your fault not mine.I clearly posted my arguments.
” I mean we didn’t attack you, and despite your protests to the contrary, it seems some sixty years layer your doing very well.”
No.You just supplied about every enemy of us with weapons.How kind of you!Maybe we should repay this kindness.
Yeah, we are doing so well.Not.I guess you think we are walking around in “lederhosen”, flushing down “wurst” with “beer” at “oktoberfest” too.That’s our eternal “Zeitgeist.”
“It’s hard to follow a single thread when you are so busy being mad and throwing insults.”
Liar.
“I agree it’s useless to talk civilly with you. You are filled with the propaganda of hatred.”
With whom are you agreeing?Yourself?I am not the one who believes 200 military interventions in 200 years were made for freedom and idealism.Whose propaganda?
by Bri
Honestly I really don’t want to respond. Each and every point you outline either misunderstands what I was saying, or gives a distorted view of what actually happened. Again honestly I’m sorry, when I read it it makes me laugh. I really do think your smart, but we are not connecting in our thoughts. I could go through your list, but it’s just going to keep being miss interpreted. I’ll take just one miss characterization of the facts to illustraight my point. You separate out my line of “So far you don’t given any compelling reason for me to think that you have the facts straight.” Japan and Germany aren’t sovriegn nations? We actually own Germany and Japan? Talk about twisting!! I’ll have to drop by and visit my countries some time. I guess the US is part of the European union now.. I apologize if your insulted that I find your remarks to be humorous sometimes. It does open up a lot of joke material in my head. So who did you vote for, Romney or Obama. I gotta go. It’s hard to have a debate. ( do you have a US drivers licsence? What state? Oh it’s the state of Germany!) I really gotta go . I really don’t want to be insulting. How can I have a debate?
by Mr.X
“I could go through your list, but it’s just going to keep being miss interpreted. ”
+
“Japan and Germany aren’t sovriegn nations? We actually own Germany and Japan?”
Where did I say this!?
You said your country would not take other soverignity away.Germany wasn’t sovereign in the cold war era.Neither was Japan.
Sovereign nations -for example- are allowed to build up their military any way they want, without having laws made by other countries putting restrictions on them.Is this so hard to understand?
” I’ll have to drop by and visit my countries some time. I guess the US is part of the European union now.”
Makes no sense.
by Mr.X
Btw:“I could go through your list, but it’s just going to keep being miss interpreted. ”
At least you’re honest.
by Bri
It come down to semantics again. A miss understanding of words. The restrictions of military development is a term of agreement in your countries surrender. You still have your sovreignry.. Many countries have terms, agreements , treaties, etc. I think my jokes might be termed sardonic. If you find them offensive I didn’t intend that. They outline aspects of your sovreigry. The great industrial nations of the world, in list of output, used to be Us, Japan,Germany, with China not even among them. Im not sure but I think that is unprecedented in the history of war. Most war outcomes result in the losing country becoming a part of the victorious country. I have many products from both countries. I know and like people from both countries. As far as I’m aware the political relationships between both countries is without tension. Out of all the Japanese that I have meet of read about, I have never heard about the tensions that you relate. From my Polish friends I hear about tension similiar to what you describe. They refer to a mind set that is similiar to Germany before the world wars. One of them is married to a Russian girl. I’ve spoken to her about the cold war and current relations. She told me directly that Russia was going to nuke us and that they were going to live in bomb shelters, win the war and own our country. She even said that she was looking forward to owning America. Our conversation have been polite and I told her that after nuclear holocosts there is nothing but radioactive wastelands. She still believes that Russia would have prevailed and it would have been no problem. Central to her views was that Russia would take away our sovreignry. That this would be theirs. I have run across other Russians with similiar views. That America would be apart of their land and that if the war had been fought they would have won. I
Happy to say I don’t know of a single American that thinks that Russia would have been owned by America after a war. I don’t know of a single American that would want to own Iran. If we had to fight a war with that country and we won, we would return it’s sovreignry, with terms of surrender. This would most likely be the same as what we did in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afganistan. America is not interested in being colonial. I watched the documentary that you posted on the war of 1812. What is now Canada was owned by Britain. Every detail that I related to you about this war was in the documentary. When the American commander came to non British army personel, they tried to explain that we were seeking to help them end British rule. It was rejected and they later became Canadian in there country they see it as the beginning of their self identity of being Canadian. We have excellent relations with Canada. We don’t have any interest in making them part of America. I have never run across a Canadian who expressed any anger over the war. In the documentary they said that for both countries, it is largely a forgotten war. Since this article is about American drones spying on Iranian territory, the question of whether we are belligerent is very related. America has no interest in messing with Iran. Iran has been very belligerent toward many countries. It has announced it’s intentions. It has even stated it’s goal of the annihilation of Isreal. We are bound to Isreal by treaties and agreements. If Iran wasn’t being so belligerent we would not be sending drones into their country. I’m sorry if you view America as being belligerent. In the case of the Iraqi war I would say yes. Many Americans didn’t agree with bush. In my eyes it was a very bad war, but the Iraqi’s have their sovreignry. Iraq is not a part of the US. Nobody here wants Iraq to be a part of America. We did fear that they were destabilizing the area with WMD,s, but that was a false pretense. Bush wanted the war for his own reasons. Most Americans wish that the war didn’t happen. Most Americans don’t want a war with Iran.. Iraq did use banned weapons on Iran and it’s own people. Saddam Hussien was very belligerent to his neighboring countries. I think the issue should have been resolved within the UN. If Osama Bin Laden hadn’t attach the US from Afganistan and used the Taliban to protect him, we wouldn’t have attacked them either. Just like the war of 1812, a series of events started the conflicts. There are wars fought all over the world still to this day. Honduras fought a war with El Savadore over a soccer match. Most Americans don’t wSnt to fight any war whatsoever. Hopefully that will be the case, but America is not seeking to be belligerent to any nation on earth. If you believe otherwise that is your opinion. Americans are not brainwashed to believe otherwise. There is no talk of starting a war with Iran. Some Americans talk of nuking Iran, but that is hyperbole. It’s born out of frustration with Iran’s belligerent attitude towards Isreal. Amara has written about how Romney might want to escalate a conflict with Iran, if he had been elected. That’s part of politics. It would have been a tough sell to the American people. I hope that this helps you understand us. We are not seeking to be belligerent.
by Mr.X
“The restrictions of military development is a term of agreement in your countries surrender. You still have your sovreignry..”
+
“Sovereignty is the quality of having supreme, independent authority over a geographic area, such as a territory.” -Wiki, googled, there is no deeper knowledge than google’s.Just ask Watson.
Another example.Your country forced mine to take the uneducated Turkish youth into our territory, and that wasn’t part of our “agreements”.Now, we have more Turkish youth than German youth were I live.Knowing some Turkish surely is part of German heritage and the freedom of self-determinition that my people enjoys after having been “liberated”.When I’m your age, I won’t have any country that keeps my cultural heritage alive, due to the different birthrates of soon extinct indigenous people and their muslim counterparts.Well, we are the “Indians”, they are the “Americans”.If you think this is right wing nutjob stuff, read the recent report of the OECD.Or any other statistic.
That’s freedom.Freedom from future.Thanks America.
“The Turkish government asked Germany to recruit Turkish guest workers. Theodor Blank, Secretary of State for Employment, was opposed to such agreements, believing that the cultural gap between Germany and Turkey would be too large. He also argued that Germany needed no additional foreign laborers, because there were enough unemployed people living in the poorer regions of Germany who could take these jobs. The United States however, put some political pressure on Germany, as it wanted to stabilize Turkey. The German Department of Foreign Affairs carried on negotiations after this and in 1961 an agreement was reached.”
Thanks for all this sovereignty over our territory.And this is the English article, it puts things mildly.
Analogy: If I push your teeth down your throat and you “agree” to give me all your money, regularly, you’re a true sovereign, a free”freeman” in the truest, freest sense of the word!Is this so hard to understand?Yes, it must be.
“Most war outcomes result in the losing country becoming a part of the victorious country.”
Haha, you make me laugh (sounds like love?I love laughing!? Strange.Ve should learn English pronunciation.Maybe that’s why you kept misunderstanding me).
Anyway: That’s why we have still over hundred nations on this beautiful planet, called earth (or America?).
So by your reasoning Russia is part of France and Britian after losing against them?Or part of Japan? Denmark was part of Prussia?Just like France?Just like Austria?Just like “insert various German states”?
You know, there were more than fifty victorious nations in WW2.Surely, they couldn’t agree who gets to eat the cake.
“As far as I’m aware the political relationships between both countries is without tension.”
Japan and Germany?Yeah.We and the US?Certainly not.Japan and the USA? Maybe, because they’re being antidemocratic.Just this (or was it last) year a government dissolved because they couldn’t sovereignly yield to public pressure urging them to send away all these American soldiers with all their cultural competence (the typ of the iceberg was a group that was found out to regurlarly raping Japanase women/girls).
“Out of all the Japanese that I have meet of read about, I have never heard about the tensions that you relate.”
Well, maybe they talk differently to me.I have Japanese aquaintances saying things like “next time without Italy”.There was(and is) this famous karate master, warning against the Americanization of Japan and the rising crime rates that would follow (some small waves are already hitting the beach, he doesn’t want to wait for the tsunami).He is the founder of the kyokushinkai style (I took his stance from his book, maybe “way of karate”- didn’t read it in English), if you don’t believe me.^^
“From my Polish friends I hear about tension similiar to what you describe.”
You know, and this I say without being rascist (for that would mean insulting myself, in this case, despite not actually believing in races that way): Poles have a tendency to see themselves as victims.Even if they started things (like annexing non Polish territories belonging to the glorious SU).Of course, they have a long history of being surpressed.
“They refer to a mind set that is similiar to Germany before the world wars.”
+
“She even said that she was looking forward to owning America.”
Germany never wanted to own the USA.Maybe you shouldn’t swallow all this propaganda.It can upset the stomach, which is nearer to the heart than your brain.Most of the time we follow our “hearts”;)
“That America would be apart of their land and that if the war had been fought they would have won.”
Well, I once read a webcomic containing a guy depicting Russia.His motto was: All things will be Russia.How do you think they got their country so big!?The comic was Japanese, btw.The guy depicting the USA was someone who never listens to others, is slightly dumb and eats while speaking.He also doesn’t notice making mistakes, and thus is doomed to repeat them.
Anyway: Maybe the SU would have won WW3.But you’d surely use wmds in such a case, there is no doubt.
“Happy to say I don’t know of a single American that thinks that Russia would have been owned by America after a war.”
Just saying things can bestow a certain bliss upon us, right?I’m happy to say: Nice to write to you for the first time.I really like meeting new people!
Well.I know many Americans asserting that they own Europe, Germany, or even the world.Shall I post some emails/pn’s I received? Paraphrase: “Our soldiers are here to keep you nazis down, in case you get funny ideas.”
“I don’t know of a single American that would want to own Iran. If we had to fight a war with that country and we won, we would return it’s sovreignry, with terms of surrender.”
With terms of surrender?This is pure wordplay.Either I can decide myself, or I am not free.
“This would most likely be the same as what we did in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afganistan.”
Ah, the great American success stories.It’s unfair that you use the most successful endeavors, like Iraq and (!) Afghanistan.Free, proud, beautiful Afghanistan.
“America is not interested in being colonial.”
Yeah, that’s why you declared your independence.Who is this America guy you are talking about?Can I meet him?As for your government, it clearly is being imperialist (the word you were searching for).
Or do you think getting military bases after bribing and equiping some generals in Latin America who then proceed to overthrow their then former- sometimes democratically elected- governments is a selfless, uncolonial, and freedom promoting thing to do?I wholeheartly agree with you.Call me general X.
“Every detail that I related to you about this war was in the documentary.”
Well, then you should have related these “little details” of the president making remarks that cleary state the expansional character of the move made.You didn’t.Why?
“We have excellent relations with Canada. We don’t have any interest in making them part of America.”
Maybe, because they are already part of America?Or are we talking about the USA?Just because something is conventional somewhere doesn’t make it right.
“Since this article is about American drones spying on Iranian territory, the question of whether we are belligerent is very related. America has no interest in messing with Iran. ”
It must be a very disciplined country you’re telling me so kindly about.Doing things, even though they are uninteresting.I wish I had that disciplin.
“Iran has been very belligerent toward many countries.”
Yeah.Israel, maybe.Proof for their general belligerance?
I let you in on a secret: Deeds speak more than words (I know you know that). Usa: Like a billion, offensive (and some “defensive”) wars.
Iran: Defense against Iraq (armed and encouraged wholeheartly in the name of freedom, by the peaceloving and thereby peace preserving USA!).
Israel itself is belligerent.But of course, they actually have a situation that makes this valuable/necessary.Where is your excuse?
“It has announced it’s intentions. It has even stated it’s goal of the annihilation of Isreal.”
You must have taken a course in rhetorics.Amazing.I have the intention to go eat something.How belligerent, I apologize!The second sentence is a blatant lie.Oh wait, you can’t lie if you don’t know the truth.The ability to lie, presumes knowing the truth.Thank you for teaching me semantics!
“If Iran wasn’t being so belligerent we would not be sending drones into their country.”
That’s why homeland security sends drones into the USA.Or do you know better than them.Arrogant.
“I’m sorry if you view America as being belligerent. In the case of the Iraqi war I would say yes. Many Americans didn’t agree with bush.”
And many more agreed.That’s why he was president.I had American aquaintances shunning me because our country didn’t go along with “Iraqi freedom”and was too much of a “pussy” to “show them sand niggas who’s boss”.Make way for the FREEDOM FRIES!
“In my eyes it was a very bad war, but the Iraqi’s have their sovreignry.Iraq is not a part of the US.”
Maybe I should look up the word sovereignty for you.And I’m not only talking about the spelling.
“If Osama Bin Laden hadn’t attach the US from Afganistan and used the Taliban to protect him, we wouldn’t have attacked them either.”
Yeah, I heard he was attached to America.Especially the morally stainless porn industry.
Let plain old X speak plainy: You demanded unconditional access to Afghani soil.The Taliban wanted to put him to trial themselves, probably condeming him to death (of course, you’re an expert on their customs).Totally non imperialist behavior, like austro-hungaria was before WW1: the MOST non-imperial nation.
If an American kills people, your government shields them.We had some American bastards here that threw stones onto a Autobahn, killing a soon-to-be mother and her already born child.If I’d get my hands on them, they’d be dead meat.Well, I guess this will never happen, but one never knows^^
“Hopefully that will be the case, but America is not seeking to be belligerent to any nation on earth. If you believe otherwise that is your opinion. Americans are not brainwashed to believe otherwise. There is no talk of starting a war with Iran.”
Well, maybe you should watch CNN or read the New York Times.What a joke.The fact that you think “Ahmadin” has much power, and that you don’t know about American mistranslations speaks volumes of the free media in freedonia, land of the brave and free.Forward, for freedom we will march!I want you!
Maybe all this noise makes freedom unfree.Ignorance born out of overinformation.
Btw: Of course you’re not brainwashed by your government with anti-governmental propaganda.If you think this means your brain isn’t clean nonetheless, I don’t know what to say.
Your statement is based on anecdotes, so it’s just your opinion.
“It would have been a tough sell to the American people. I hope that this helps you understand us. We are not seeking to be belligerent.”
So, you can speak for your leaders and 320 million people, some of who believe in the literal truth of the bible and wouldn’t even find Russia on a map?Pretty collectivist.
Btw:Americans are infamous salespeople.
Anyway: You claim you are not seeking to be belligerent?Doesn’t change the fact that you are.All your military spending, so that Iran can’t conquer your country with his violent hordes of doom and is excellent blue water navy of death.
Thank you for making it clear that uncle Sam wants the best for us all.Thank you so much, I was beginning to doubt he’d be the kind person that great aunt Britannia was.
As you say: Think about what we could gain by setting our differences aside.
Have a nice day (even though you seem to take offensive with this expression).
by arete
It’s independence, not “independance”
It’s too, not “to”
It’s your bs, not “you bs”
“simplictic” is not a word
there are more
. . . Since you decided to criticize bri’s spelling in the same post. Maybe take another route next time.
by Mr.X
@Arete: Who cares.He is a native, I’m not.
by Mr.X
“We weren’t driven by the prospects of enlarging the US. ”
Sure.You never were… that’s why Las Vegas, Los angeles etc have English names (in case you didn’t notice: that’s not English).The truth hurts, especially for someone born in a culture that perceives itself as being always good and right.Pathetic.
by Bri
Again you make me laugh. The French had the center of the country and the Spanish had the west and most of central and South America. That was the age of imperialism. Every nation was doing that. Britain was still doing it in the early twentieth century. You’ve got some chip on your shoulder. Your arguments all fall flat. That’s why you change arguments so fast with statements like Los Angeles. Shall I be condescending to you and say that it means the city of angels. I think you know. Just like I think you know that I’m familiar with the term Manifest Destiny, and other American history. To win an argument you have to prove your accusations. You just change subjects while decaring yourself the winner. If you want we can go over each and every war that was fought by the US. You have a very distorted view of all the wars that you have spoken about, but everthing I try to keep you on subject you change subjects. Take your pick of wars. Let’s just focus on the one that bothers you the most. We can go into as much detail as you like, and if you want to hurl insults, I don’t mind. It doesn’t help you case. It only illustrates your poor judgement.
by Mr.X
@Bri. Ok: It’s moral because everyone else was doing it.
“To win an argument you have to prove your accusations.”
Show me what you proved, pls?I backed up my statements with links, you just claimed stuff.
Where did I declare myself the winner?This alone shows that the truth is of no concern to you, or why do you think in these terms.
+
You started insulting me.
= You’re a hypocrite.
Let’s start with proving:
““If Russia really won WWII all of Germany would have been communist.””
This isn’t logically entailed.If you are being honest, this means you can’t think logically.
Russia is not the whole of the SU. This implies you don’t know what you are talking about.
You addressed none of my points.
Example:
Your claim: ” They got to Berlin first, but the allies won back all the rest. That was the real war.”
Wikipedia ( a better source than your memory).
“According to estimates, USSR destroyed 75-80% of living forces of the Wermacht and even higher percentage of armored forcec.”
This doesn’t even take into account, that our forces retreated in order to let you take Germany before the SU could get there (fear of retribution).
“. You have a very distorted view of all the wars that you have spoken about,”
Yeah, you have the ultimate truth.Didn’t you have visions of the past.Haha^^
by Mr.X
” We thought that Canada would want to be free of British rule. ”
+
“You say that we started the war of 1812. Britain was fighting France. They put up a naval blockade of the French territories in Canada. We thought they might want to be free of British rule. That’s why the war stopped so soon. Instead of fighting the British they fought for them. ”
There were no French territories.French speaking doesn’t make them French.The UK won them in their last war.
You invaded, they held you.Then, after France was beaten, they send three armies and burned down the white house.The war ended.
You repealed three further attacks, both sides thought it wasn’t worth it anymore.A resounding defeat.
” As far as I remember they drove back the Natzi from their nation.”
Train your memory.They also beat up all the balkan nations on our side.
Your statements:
“You guys had no chance of holding onto that territory. You had already bit off more than you could chew with Africa. ”
+
“To win an argument you have to prove your accusations.”
You’re either intellectually dishonest, or plain dumb.I think you’re a moral person.
by Mr.X
Of course, the war ended belongs to the end of the paragraph :)
by Bri
@X: the births set up a naval blockade. The people of Quebec may have been turned into British subjects, but they are still to this day , of French descent. My math isn’t very good. The war of 1812 was 36 years after our independence. We were no super power looking for territories. We thought they would be interested in being free of British rule. To think that we had an imperial army is nonsense. We had almost no military power. Washington is almost at the sea. As I remember it was hit with cannons from British warships. Both sides agreed that it wSnt worth fighting over. You characterized the conflict as empire building. We view it as a configuration of liberating the colonies from oppression. Like I said, it was only 36 years after our independence. We had a lot of that idealism at the time. I think that you should admit that your premise was that we were trying to be like Britain or France. Both were very powerful superpowers. We were a small nation. There wasn’t a lot going on in Canada at the time anyway. It was mainly Quebec. They still speak French today. They associate with French heritage. We only could exist because of afrench idealism. Liberty, fraternity, brotherhood. The statue of liberty. That kind of stuff. Your perceptions of the war are very different from mine.
by Mr.X
“To think that we had an imperial army is nonsense.”
Strawmen.
“but they are still to this day , of French descent. ”
If you read my comment, you knew that I know this.
” Your perceptions of the war are very different from mine.”
Canadians beg to differ, too.
” I think that you should admit that your premise was that we were trying to be like Britain or France.”
No.No.No.
“They still speak French today. ”
Vraiment?
“Your perceptions of the war are very different from mine.”
Because you’re from the evil empire, I’m not.Jk.
“You characterized the conflict as empire building.”
Yeah, like the historians quoted by wikipedia, and the documentary I send you.
“We were no super power looking for territories. ”
No, the hungry puppy needs to eat, then he can grow into big a big wolf.
by Bri
@X: again you make me laugh out loud! You can’t stop your insults and you can’t stop twisting things. I have never insulted you. You keep saying insulting with statements about my visions of past events. Sorry none of them were of these topics. You just can’t admit that you are very wrong. Like the allies didnt want retribution. They bombed two cities to smithereens that were the crown jewels of Germany. It is a moral issue to this day. Many people saythat those innocent none military lives should never have been exterminated. My father was in the army Corp of engineers. He helped build the make shift bridges that the allies and Germans blew up. I gues you didn’t do a good job of retreating if the Russians got their first anyway. Nice to see the google quote still out of context. Now we have ” the living” modifing the sentence. It’s still going to be the forces that were deployed to Russia. Obviously Normandy, Montgomery and Paton fighting up through Italy was nothing at all. I’m sorry to bother you. Only the Russians are worth any credit. You can keep coming to this American website, with your distorted view and chip on your shoulder. Say whatever insults you like. It’s more than obvious that you can’t have a civil discussion or admit that you are wrong. I really won’t respond again. As you say, have a nice day.
by Mr.X
“Obviously Normandy, Montgomery and Paton fighting up through Italy was nothing at all. I’m sorry to bother you.”
You said you fought the real war.The east was nothing.To Europeans, the east was legendary manslaughter.
“I guess you didn’t do a good job of retreating if the Russians got their first anyway.”
Yeah.Half of the people were not Russian, but you’re the history expert.
” I have never insulted you.”
Biggest joke ever.Next one.
” You just can’t admit that you are very wrong. “”
Very wrong?Interesting.I can say the same about you.Just ask other non-American wether they perceive things the way you do.
“You can keep coming to this American website,”
Just say if you only want Americans here.I thought you were for freedom of speech.Hypocrite.
Ps: I have to suffer Americans insulting us in our own newspapers, too.Who cares.
by Bri
X. This conversation is futile. I just reread up on the war. 30% of your forces were in the west and 70% were in the east. Hitler tried a blitzkrieg and got to the edge of Stalingrade before winter set in. Most of your groups died in Pow camps. The remainder mainly died of starvation and freezing to death. It was nicknamed the frozen flesh ear. The Russians needed allied support to win. We helped with materials, training and intel.. Yes there were tremendous, ruthless battles. As I said most of the deaths happened by miss treatment in POW camps. The real force that made you lose was the winter and strained supply lines. Your forces in the west got creamed by the allies and Russia needed allied help. That’s what I just read in wikipedia. That’s the way I new it before. If you feel differently I’m not going to argue the point with you. Those are the facts. Get over it and think of the good that can happen by setting aside our differences. I hope you and Germany do well. Although I don’t always agree with American thought, I feel that we want the rest of the world to live in peace and prosperity. You can say what you will, I won’t respond to it anymore.
by Mr.X
“30% of your forces were in the west and 70% were in the east.”
Quote?And btw.This is what I said: Most of us were in the EAST!The war was WON and FOUGHT mainly in the EAST.
“Your forces in the west got creamed by the allies and Russia needed allied help.”
Haha.Creamed by you!?And btw:Strawman.I never said Russia could do it alone.1 billion people against 60 million Germans.Be proud of your victory (especially the USA, which armed for years before joining).
“You can say what you will, I won’t respond to it anymore.”
Most mature response ever.Cry baby.
“Get over it and think of the good that can happen by setting aside our differences.”
It is you who takes everything personally.There is nothing to get over for me.I won’t suffer your insults without repaying in kind.
PS:Oh my god, he critizised my perfect AMERICA.I hate him now.
by Mr.X
Ps: x.To you I’m Mr.X.Or call me Mr.xxx and greet your mom.That’s an insult.
Btw: Do you know what your nickname means?
by Ville Heikkinen
Its funny how people here talk about Iran as a threat. I’d say USA is the threat, attacking everywhere after their own interests and false claims.
by Mr.X
@Ville: Forget it, they’re trully brainwashed.
by Gabriel
Honestly, I often worry about Israel — I empathize with the suffering of the Jewish people who often seem to be vilified, and I’m unlikely to ever forget the Holocaust…..but pity doesn’t give them the right to do whatever they want.
Supposedly they have nukes despite being the only country in that region with them and no country in that region is allowed to have them….the USA backs them up all the time, but why? And how would their influence change if they stopped?
More research I suppose….but my main point stands — just because I feel sorry for someone doesn’t entitle them to whatever they want and obligate/guilt-trip me to help them in whatever they feel like doing.
by Bunch O. Neurons
“Iran invites Israeli brothers and sisters for group-hugs. Israel reciprocates.”
And then i woke up.
All you need is LOVE.
Long-range Omni Vermin Extermination.
by Mr.X
@ Bunch o. Neurons: There was something similiar to this.
http://iranlovesisrael.com/
http://www.israelovesiran.com/
They had enough followers (e.g on facebook) to be mentioned in some newspapers (that’s why I rembered it).
by Gus
Why not not out all the BS and sleepless nights. Give’em 24 hours to kick out their insane clerics and install a resenable government that respects both men and women and doesn’t threaten other nations just because they don’t like the way they worship. If they don’t comply then Nuke Iran and turn the entire country into the worlds biggest glow in the dark waste land for the next ten thousand years. It will definitely send a message to all those terrorist idiots out there. You mess w/ the US and you die like the rest. So play nice children, or we’ll get out our ugly stick, and you sure don’t want that.
by Mr.X
“If they don’t comply then Nuke Iran and turn the entire country into the worlds biggest glow in the dark waste land for the next ten thousand years”
So, and people accuse me of anti-Americanism.This stuff is much more rare in Europe, and frankly, it’s babaric.
by Apologist Not
This USA-bashing must stop. Dear European, think for a second. where’d you be without the Americans? Without them the Nazis would have won, admit it. Now there’s obviously another threat, and who’s doing anything about it? The Europeans? Wait… it’s the same guys again.
Granted, the U.S. was founded by Europeans but Americans are like supercharged Europeans with an afterburner! Wiser, deeper longer-term thinkers, more intelligent, more beautiful, the list goes on and on… there’s _nothing_ wrong with America. It’s just that the rest of the world is jealous of their immeasurable success in every field! It’s _truly_ a glorious nation with glorious leaders guided by a glorious constitution – things that can’t be said of _ANY_ other nation in Earth’s history.
by Mr.X
@ Apologist: Stalin won WW2 (as simplistic as you are). I’m German, so what do you want to achieve with this nazis remark?Do you want to claim Germany was an appeaser?
We have nothing to do with your warmongering, Iran threatens nobody with direct force, excpect as retaliation.If you were an Israely, I could understand your perception of Iran.
Without us Europeans, you would not even exist.Without the French, the British would have reannexed you.
The constant bashing of the rest of the world must stop, your country looks partly like a third-wrold nation, partly like some fascist dictatorship.You’re certainly not a leader, but some mixture of bully and laughinstock.
Your generation did nothing for Europe btw, stop dishonoring your ancestors through claiming their work as yours.
About the rest: What a joke.More beautiful, first most of you are small and fat.According to wikipedia, even your “naughty bits” are small^^Secondly, you don’t share a common heritage, how can you suppose a common look?
You average IQ is below 100, which is a joke.Long-term thinking?You mean like 4 years for elections and 20 seconds for your financial system/decisions, which is/are at fault for yet another crisis.
We owe you nothing.
Ps. Yeah, I’m jealous of your crime rates, glorious Bush and an ignored constitution.
Sieg heil, Amerinazi !
by George
why not send the expendables with pocket knifes while you’re at it, you don’t even need nukes they will kill us all.
by GAUSS
I understand your frustration, I really do, but use of nuclear weaponry should never ever occur again. That does lots more than just affect the area it exploded in. The leftover radioactive clouds spread everywhere, circling the earth many times. This is harmful for plants, the environment, and of course people. I’d advocate a black ops CIA program to take out those who cause trouble. That is, I think a much more effective way of dealing with enemies is to use stunning precision and stealth, not the brute force of the 20th century. What you’ve described would certainly put on a show, but in truth we owe it to ourselves and future generations of good people to never use those weapons again.
by Mr.X
@GAUSS:
Think about it, you would be the most despised people on earth (if that matter afterwards) if you use nuclear weapons against a country without such weapons, in a first strike.
More importantly, you’d harm the territory of other nuclear powers, making retaliation possible.
Would be a real waste to destroy civilization right before it could produce real well-being for all/most of humanity, and maybe ways to secure it against todays threats^^
Although I like the Fallout games I would prefer not to create real wastelands, but I guess I won’t be radiated to live for some hundred extra years, with almost no need for food.Besides, those guys looked ugly.And the majority just died.
Maybe one could leave Iran alone!?
by Mr.X
@Gauss: Btw. Did you just say that nuking Iranians would be ok if its effects was restrained to only them!?
PS: Spying and generally operating covertly in ethnically different countries, with a very different culture, and a rather different language (usage) can be very hard.
If you could just do this, your country would do it.Defacto, I am sure nations all around are doing their best to get some people out of their way.
Remember the killing of Iranian scientists, and the stuxnet virus.Some countries who preach morality would go to war over these things.
by GAUSS
Nowhere did I advocate use of nuclear weaponry. Quite the opposite: they should never be used again.
Covert ops in very different areas can be difficult, but our CIA used to do that – before they had their funding cut severely. Most of our defense money is routed to the military, which as it is is rather clunky and inefficient (the President himself has directly stated much the same, aiming for a ‘lean, agile military’). All I was saying is that if we really honestly have to make a move, we should do so quietly and swiftly, not using brute force or WMDs. I repeat, nowhere in my post did you see me advocating use of nuclear weapons.
Thank you for the responses. :) Take care.
by Mr.X
“All I was saying is that if we really honestly have to make a move, we should do so quietly and swiftly, not using brute force or WMDs.”
The problem is, they can retry and retry and retry, to build wmds.
“Most of our defense money is routed to the military, which as it is is rather clunky and inefficient”
Maybe the reason for this is to enable the development of key technologies faster than potential enemies?I ask, since I don’t know the particulars of your military spending.Of course, there are a lot of jobs too.And conservatives might not want any changes.
Have a nice day :)
by Julius
I’m not surprised, if I would have the power, I’d destroy all politically driven (i.e. war-causing) drones and make them disappear from the face the earth.
Especially so it would annoy idiots like Gus.
by Bennie Beaver
I’m not so surprised by this report considering that the West military manufacturing/gov has sold, given away technologies for years now. The rest are sold and given to them by China and Russia, etc. Karl Max, of all people, said that capitalism would sell the rope to hang itself. Make one believe he was right.
General and President of the United State of America President Eisenhower said, to keep your eyes on the military because you can never give them enough money or weapons to build. America needs to stop purchasing Middle East Oil yesterday. That alone would reduce their ability to purchase, or build modern systems short of changing their government and doing it the old fashion way through real and true competition of ideas.
Of course, when one considers President Eisenhower’s remark, one might wonders whether weapons manufactures purposely create those conflicting circumstances simply so that, then government will need to give them more money to develop counter measures.
Otherwise, I question just why a news item like this is on this Web Site without a great reference to science and technologies in general.
by Dennis R.
Why the presumption that the only way Iranian scientists could develop advanced technology would be to steal it or buy it from us or another major power? Why presume that creative scientific minds are only present in those nation-states we call “superpowers”?
by Mr.X
@Because we are cultural surpremacists, rascists and/or nationalists (as opposed to patriots),
Of course, as you so nicely demonstrate, this describes not everyone.I guess mostly older people – who live in the past- believe in their cultural surpremacy.There are also some “hotheaded” young people.
“Patriotism is based on affection and nationalism is rooted in rivalry and resentment. One can say that nationalism is militant by nature and patriotism is based on peace.
Most nationalists assume that their country is better than any other, whereas patriots believe that their country is one of the best and can be improved in many ways. Patriots tend to believe in friendly relations with other countries while some nationalists don’t.”
Source:http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-nationalism-and-patriotism/
“President Benson taught the end result of nationalism, guised as patriotism:
If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers – normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free – Americans who have been lulled away into a false security”
Source: http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/patriotism-vs-nationalism
Have a nice day:)
by Rick
This is not the news I’m looking for when I open this email. I could get this stuff off Fox News
by Editor
This news is important because it’s a possible early indicator of a major confrontation with Iran, which raises questions about a possible future extinction event.
by Robin Mackey
This article does not discuss anything about a “possible future extinction event.” thats because it is a tiny event in everyday world dealings. It is hard enough to go through this newsletter/website everyday as I do for the last six years and research new technologies that are presented. Many other H+ and singularitarian websites and blogs have a gajillion social issue scenarios about future and current tsch. The best thing about this newsletter and kurzweilai.net is that its main focus is on the actual technologies being worked on. If you are going to post these trivial political events then do so when they have significant value. Something on the order of 100,000 age related disease deaths a day, world hunger, etc. Yes small events can turn into larger events but that is what we get bombarded in the traditional news feeds. Ray’s website is for those things that the media rarely informs people of. Oh yeah lets look into political conflict cause Google just made an app for that. Please
by Editor
I said “a possible early indicator of a major confrontation with Iran, which raises questions about…” My selection of indicators to cover is based on background reading and in some cases, information from insider sources, and is selected for non-trivial long-range importance. Of course, all statements about the future are speculations… including this one. :)
by Samcon
It is also a good example of the way in which technology has changed the playing field in military operations. If that was a manned aircraft, it is highly unlikely that the Iranian pilot would have engaged it. If you shoot down a drone, there will be an argument and fist pumping. If you shoot down a manned US military aircraft there will be retaliation in the form of missile strikes and bomb deliveries, likely to escalate rapidly.
by GAUSS
Editor, you hit the nail on the head… we have got to move on from this obsession.
by Vlad
I don’t know what is so special about this news, back in 2002 the same drone was shut down by old Iraqi MiG-25 fighter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-1_Predator#Iraq
by Editor
iran is a much bigger threat, and the action appears to have significant implications.
by Mr.X
Well, the real threat to peace is the US.No need to reframe this.
by GAUSS
Mr. X, it is very true that the US has been a significant warmongering force of late.
by Vlad
I agree.
by Bri
They think that going after Bin laden was us being war mongers. They think us stopping the slaughter of Kuwait was war mongering. Iraq was war mongering. I guess they feel we wasted an opportunity to war monger with Libya and Egypt. Such a shame. Think of all those dead people and we didn’t have anything to do with it. You know I miss our old war mongering evil empire days. Aren’t there any African nations that we can go after, just for the sport of it. What about South America. There is all this oil down there and a crazy dictator. We could just nuke them and take their oil. Mexico is a BIG pain in the butt, with all those illegals and drug cartels. Heck who would care if the evil US just made the another state. Don’t forget Cuba. Boy do we have an axe to grind with them. It would make such a good resort. Just the kind of thing an evil empire has got to have. North Koreas looking kinda weak right now. They’re playing around with nukes too. We should go over there and just pop them real good. Then we can show off how bad ass we are to China. You know this evil empire stuff feel real good. We might as well act the way they say we are. Just skip to the chase and cry havoc!!!
by Mr.X
“They think that going after Bin laden was us being war mongers. ”
Yes, attacking random countries because they don’t become puppets is war mongering.
“Iraq was war mongering.”
Yes, the Iraq war of Bush junior was warmongering.
“I guess they feel we wasted an opportunity to war monger with Libya and Egypt. Such a shame. Think of all those dead people and we didn’t have anything to do with it.”
Despite encouraging, giving ammunition and logistical coordination, you’d nothing to do with it.
“What about South America.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHa1SMUoER8&feature=related
“We could just nuke them and take their oil.”
You could not.
“Don’t forget Cuba. Boy do we have an axe to grind with them.”
You invaded and failed.Lack of success in evil endeavors doesn’t make one good.
“North Koreas looking kinda weak right now. ”
They have nukes, and China guarantees them.
” We might as well act the way they say we are. Just skip to the chase and cry havoc!!!”
You do as you can, but reality puts constraints on you.
by Bri
Germany put 3.7 million troops on the eastern front to attack it’s neighbors. I somehow don’t think that the tiny efforts against Cuba amounts to us trying to invade them and make them a part of the US. Military skirmishes happen all the time. They don’t constitute military innovations, nor designs of empire building. That facts are clear. America uses it’s might to influence the world, for the worlds betterment, not towns it satellites or puppets. WwI and WWII were caused by Germanies naked aggression and desires for world domination. America doesn’t even come close in any of it’s military actions. History more than proves that, but I’m sure your opinion won’t be swayed to see that America is committed to global peace, not conquest. Commerce is international. Of course we will try and protect our interests. Every nation does. You can believe you’ve view of things, we will still do what we believe is best. All the nations of the world are free to peruse thier own economic dominance. We foster the worlds economic development. China is a classic example. It now exceeds Germanies output and may become the most powerful economic nation soon. Not so long ago it was communist. Now it’s capitalist. Now it thrives.
by Mr.X
“Germany put 3.7 million troops on the eastern front to attack it’s neighbors.”
NeighborS?Which?
“invade them and make them a part of the US.”
strawman.Just changing their government, make them “democratic”.Your “demos” reigns theirs.How selfless.
“WwI and WWII were caused by Germanies naked aggression and desires for world domination.”
Historians disagree.How did Germany cause WW1?Read a book.Monocausal thinking is the hallmark of the uneducated man.
“That facts are clear. America uses it’s might to influence the world, for the worlds betterment, not towns it satellites or puppets.”
That’s why your ex-colonies like you and are so highly developed.
“China is a classic example. It now exceeds Germanies output and may become the most powerful economic nation soon. ”
Yeah, it’s hard for 1,3 billion to produce more than 80 million.I’m amazed!Capitalism rules.
“We foster the worlds economic development. China is a classic example. ”
China reformed itself.They even have made the guy who is responsible into a national hero.How arrogant you are.
“Every nation does.”
Not according to you.There is one selfless hero.
“You can believe you’ve view of things, we will still do what we believe is best.”
+
“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’ve tried everything else.”
Winston Churchill
Sadly, there are so many possibilities, as this site says.
Look up the word “fact”, American google power rules.
Paraphrasing Goethe: Nobody is so ignorant as the man who thinks he already knows.
Or Zen: Empty your cup.
Speaking of which: Europe and especially Britian, invented capitalism.Let’s thank them.
by Mr.X
“The MQ-1 Predator drone returned to its base unscathed, even as the Iranian aircraft chased it away from the Islamic Republic’s borders”
Are they trying to frame this as achievement?The Iranians could have easily brought down that thing.
Just propaganda to encrease animosity between the Iranian and American people.Now, after the elections, war becomes much easier to pursue.That’s why they waited till now before realising this news.
What would the USA do if an Iranian drone flies just 16 miles (only governmental source, maybe Iran says different things) outside their costline.The cowboys would start firing, and not only at the drone ;)
by godot
Did I open the Huffington Post by mistake?
by Christian Gehman
What’s to prevent arming the US drones with air to air missiles for self defense?
by Mr.X
@Christian: Maybe I should visit your home and defend myself.It’s funny how everyone here just believes, yeah, we were JUST in front of their border.
Maybe Iran should arm itself with wpm’s, for self-defense.In general, countries with wpm’s are left alone.
by de Broglie
Amara, does the drone that was shot at look like one in the picture or more look the traditional drones we seen on the news. I remember that the Iranians captured a flying wing type drone earlier. I wonder what the flying wings are used for?
by Editor
I had the wrong image! My apologies. I was misinformed by another news source. I checked several authoritative sources and you’re right, it’s an MQ-1 Predator drone. Fixed. Note to self: FACT CHECK EVERYTHING!
by Gorden Russell
So let them take their pot shots. The MQ-1 Predator is a flying wing design. The flying wing is hard to pick up on radar, and these small aircraft are indeed so small that they are very hard to pick up on radar. It will be a Pyrrhic battle for the Iranians. They will spend more on missiles and rockets then we will spend on MQ-1s. And we have more money to spend then they do.
by Roland
‘And we have more money to spend then they do.’
No you don’t.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
by Vin
Hmm, contentious seed: what constitutes trespass,craft location or (ever-progressing, security-withheld) range of recon devices?
by Editor
I added this from the Washington Post to clarify the location: “The Nov. 1 incident happened at 4:50 a.m. Eastern time, approximately 16 miles from the Iranian coastline, Little said. Under international law, national sovereignty extends for 12 nautical miles.”
by Vin
Interesting. Thank you very much. Seems like a conundrum, how can public international law keep step with classified exponentially increasing recon tech ability? 12 nautical miles seems as arbitrary as a token gesture.
by Christian Gehman
Spy satellite photographs can read the newspaper over your shoulder.
by Bri
They have one that is close in power to the Hubble. They can even see through clouds. The problems is it can only focus on one target at a time and is expensive to operate. The drones can cover large areas in teal time. Everybody has been spying on everybody else since politics began. Too hard to stop. Iran won’t nuke Isreal. It would lose. They will do a ground assault. They have forces in Iraq, which is now strongly influenced by Iran. They have forces in Lebanon, and the west bank is governed by an organization that wants to eradicate Isreal. It’s not nukes that we are watching, it’s the other preparations. With the Muslim Brotherhood in power in Egypt, Isreal is on thin ice. Iran will suffer every sanction from the international community for the chance to destroy Isreal. Their wacko leader has said onany occasions that he feels that he will start WWIII and that the Muslim faith will rule the world.
by Mr.X
@Bri:
“They will do a ground assault. ”
How can you know?
“and that the Muslim faith will rule the world.”
And if you read the “holy” Quran, you’ll see that it is their duty to subdue anyone else.In a sense, he has no choice.As you might now, “islam” means submitting to god.
Ps: Yes, I have a quran at home.Like a bible.Still, I’m an atheist.
PPs:Well, I guess one can read it online too.
by Bri
I find both books difficult to read. It’s hard to tolerate their views. I’m not an athiest. I don’t really have an organized religion that I ascribe too. I try to understand all religions to some extent, but in my opinion they all have tremendous flaws. Since I’ve had a concept of god from before I could speak or understand spoken words, I’m not convinced that there isn’t a god. I don’t demand that anyone has to. I think anyone can believe whatever they believe. It’s not a function of intelligence.
by Mr.X
Surely.One’s beliefs are no function of one’s intelligence.
by Elemee
The US Supreme Court is about to look at just that issue in the context of the privacy of one’s home. Our ability to gather data remotely has vaulted ahead of the traditional structures of our social/material world, and this is going to accelerate along with the rest of our intelligence. 12 mile limits, closed doors, medical data, forget it. Time to start giving up the old paradigms and start trying to understand what it will take for us to carry our essential humanity along with us in the transition to the new paradigms, whatever they turn out to be.
by Christian Gehman
More likely, the Iranistanis were moving or installing something that they didn’t want snooped on.
by Gorden Russell
That’s right, Christian. After all of the threats they have made, we have to keep an eye on them.
Ahmadinejad has promised to eradicate and obliterate Israel. I don’t remember any history of Israel hurting Iraq. So why the enmity?
Go to Google Maps and pull up a political map of Israel just big enough to fill your monitor from top to bottom. You will count 30 or more cities. If Iran can destroy all these cities (as Iran has promised) then Israel will strike back with 100 or more nuclear bombs that they are believed to have. If something over 130 burning cities put soot up into the upper atmosphere, this will bring about nuclear winter and billions of people will starve to death.
As repugnant as a nuclear first strike is, just one bomb flown into the mouth of that tunnel complex dug into the side of that mountain by a Tomahawk cruise missile just might be kinder to humanity than allowing Iran to build 30 bombs.
by Mr.X
@Gorden:
“It’s 5:30, we’re firing back. ”
Could you provide a link for your claims?I guess they come from American mistranslations (CNN- well, they’re not that fond of geography either^^).Like sheep.
You’re just warmongers.Your country issues threats, starts wars etc.And this moralizing, disgusting.The only people I’ve heard of who were that self-righteous called themselves nazis.
“Ahmadinejad has promised to eradicate and obliterate Israel. I don’t remember any history of Israel hurting Iraq.”
Yeah, q and n, so near besides each other.
I guess you are around 50 to 60, and believe everything your government or media issues.
Acta, kidnapping non-Americans, standing above international law, moralizing, gun fetish, illegal wars and warcrimes, killing others with drones, homeland security, overblown military, double standards, national symbols everywhere, belief in exceptionalism, school indoctrination, death penalty, newspeak etc.
Truly, a fascist circus.
by Carl Brooks
@Gorden.
The whole idea about a nuclear war ever happening is completely ussless and is just not going to happen. No sane/insane person or persons could ever justify it. Any nuclear power, firing at another nuclear power will itself be destroyed. You can prey to what ever god you want, that fact remains. lets take your Ahmadinejad statement for instance. Ahmadinejad is a bit crazy, he says all these stupid thing but he would never do it, even if he had the weapons…. “sweet, i’v got 100 nuclear war heads, time to destroy Israel… hmm… wait a minute, if i fire these off wont they fire off like a hundred back at us?…. hmmm….. does that mean everyone i’v ever met would be vaporised?…. yeh, yeh it probably does….. mum?….dad?…. i think i’ll leave it to be honest… i’m just guna put the red button down over here”.
and here’s another perspective, do you honestly think 75 million Iranians would allow Ahmadinejad to do this. No, they just wont, the threat of total annihilation, all of them dead, he would get nowhere near the button.
by Mr.X
@Carl:
Ahmadinedschad has no real power.The real decision makers are the Ajatollah, his homeys and the revolutionary guard.The leader of the latter even bitch-slapped Ahmad.. because he asked for more opportunities for the people to engage in political participation.
Ps: If you’d not thrown out their democratic government back then, they’d not revolted against their “new” shah.No islamists, no trouble!?