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		When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 12:38 AM by EgaoNoGenki	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I will NOT believe that our society has reached Technological Singularity until SAI figures out how to do the following: 1. Design and build starships that reach 60 LYH (light-years an hour). (Just the Speed of Light is far from adequate in my plans for later in life.) 2. RESURRECT CREMAINS (I will ask about this on a separate thread) When will You believe that the Technological Singularity has been reached? [Reply]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 1:03 AM by eldras	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	CREMAINS great words cremeated deads/ brilliant! Singularity defined for me apost hhuman-species (ie post human civilisation0 machine intelligence. It will be indistinguishable from magic. Very erasy to be stuck in human thought and assume our world could change like a Bhor electron leap [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 1:19 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	To me, the Singularity will be reached with the convergence of 3 things: Emergence of a global Autonomous Egalitarian civilization. Uploading into cyberspace. Observing effects at or very near the Planck scale. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 3:20 AM by Phillippe	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Emergence of a global Autonomous Egalitarian civilization. In other words, the Singularity will never happen. The only sound call you have ever accidentally rubbed against. Uploading into cyberspace. We don't hear this enough. Dying and going to heaven, other faiths have had this covered for millenia, retro boy. Observing effects at or very near the Planck scale. You don't have a clue as to what this even means, so why mention it. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 9:57 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	We don't hear this enough. Dying and going to heaven, other faiths have had this covered for millenia, retro boy. While I don't necessarily oppose ad hominem comments, I'm apprehensive about the above. Are you saying that becoming non-biological is somehow just a throwback to Christianity? There are obvious advantages to becoming non-biological, at least at some point. I'm not saying it will or should be done in the very near future. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 10:07 PM by Phillippe	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Are you saying that becoming non-biological is somehow just a throwback to Christianity? No, I'm saying that we have no clue whether "uploading into cyberspace" will be cool or not. It is talked about a lot here like it will be the rapture, like becoming a robot or a silicon chip will make us all blissfully happy forever and ever. That is just another version of the dying and going to heaven myth. Both are founded on unknowns. Different unknowns, but unknowns nonetheless. It might be like being an emotionless castrata, a thinking entity, but without emotion or feeling. It might suck, in other words. Not saying that I know that to be true, but this is at least as likely as uploading as a path to endless bliss and happiness. Those are emotions, felt by biological entities, not silicon chips or software. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 10:18 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	No, I'm saying that we have no clue whether "uploading into cyberspace" will be cool or not. It is talked about a lot here like it will be the rapture, like becoming a robot or a silicon chip will make us all blissfully happy forever and ever. That is just another version of the dying and going to heaven myth. Both are founded on unknowns. Different unknowns, but unknowns nonetheless. I think it is unknown for a variety of reasons. However... It might be like being an emotionless castrata, a thinking entity, but without emotion or feeling. It might suck, in other words. Not saying that I know that to be true, but this is at least as likely as uploading as a path to endless bliss and happiness. Those are emotions, felt by biological entities, not silicon chips or software. ...I think there is nothing about biology that cannot be emulated by a machine. The mathematical properties of squishy stuff can be modeled in a machine. But you might be right anyway, in that for various reasons we could end up destroying parts of ourselves that are important to us. We might abolish suffering but lose the satisfaction of overcoming some problem/constraint which becomes trivial in post-humanity. There are various nightmare scenarios, but risks need to be weighed against the risk of death or irrelevance. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 10:25 PM by Phillippe	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I think there is nothing about biology that cannot be emulated by a machine. I agree there is nothing impossible about simulating biology. Our knowledge is still extremely limited in a huge number of ways, however. We are still trying to understand how some cellular organelles function, so we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. But whether or when we reach the point of being able to emulate or replicate every last chemical reaction that occurs in our biological bodies in silicon says absolutely nothing about whether it will be preferable to be uploaded into silicon. For one thing by that time we will almost certainly be able to repair our biological bodies into something resembling immortality, so there will be a number of available alternatives to consider. A silicon chip is one hell of a lot more vulnerable than a biological body anyway. To think if you're uploaded you are safe for all eternity is unfounded at every level. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 10:47 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I agree with that. Although, at a certain point I think our biology could be so advanced that we will effectively be nano-tech machines. And I would like some form of mind backup system, just in case. I guess for some people the uploading idea is a way of escaping reality. But I think that the nightmare scenarios can ultimately be avoided through engineering, so I bet we'll all be non-biological in the future (although we might adopt DNA and other biological technologies). Anyway, I guess your original comment wasn't directed at me. But I'm curious how you could imagine a future, say 200 years from now, where people still live as squishy biological beings. It seems like they would have to actively avoid becoming non-biological. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 1:50 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	To me the singularity means the point at which are technology, possibly in combination with human biology, reaches and surpasses human general intelligence at an exponential rate. That is when a fundamental shift would occur. Whole Brain Emulation, cryogenics, AGI, nano-technology and other emerging technologies would have matured or will mature shortly thereafter. One technology begets another and all of those dominoes fall - events beyond that point are very hard for us to predict. That, to me, is the singularity. Faster than light travel is more like Kurzweil's sixth epoch, and he defines the singularity to be the fifth epoch. So I think what you are describing is like *another* singularity beyond the first. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 2:01 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	The sixth epoch is "the universe wakes up". FTL travel and quantum archaeology seem more like precursors to the universe "waking up" (cosmic engineering). [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 2:09 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	But definitely quantum archaeology would be evidence that the singularity was successful and safe. The singularity means merging humans with technology, right? Whole brain emulation is good enough for that, because when it happens plain humans will be left behind. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 5:32 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	When I read a post by Set/ai and it all makes complete sense to me, then I will know my brain augmentation has crossed the transhuman threshold. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/01/2009 5:37 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	>We don't hear this enough. Dying and going to heaven, other faiths have had this covered for millenia, retro boy.< Yes and a fair few myths and legends imagined man might fly one day. He did. To say that we have dreamed of something for millenia says nothing about whether or not it will be achieved in the future; it only provides evidence that we will not be put off by any amount of failed attempts. We will keep trying, trying, trying and until the goal is achieved. (unless, like perpetual motion, we have solid evidence that tells us it is unachievable in principle). [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/02/2009 2:55 PM by James_Jaeger	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	>When I read a post by Set/ai and it all makes complete sense to me, then I will know my brain augmentation has crossed the transhuman threshold. Good point. SetAI comp is the new Turing Test for posthumanity. James [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/02/2009 10:57 AM by Twixly	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Well by the definition "beyond our wildest imagination" is reached and has been reached several times already - I really think the Singularity needs it's own "S-curve" to show past Singularities by that definition. My personal definition is "true immortality". How that will manifest itself I still don't know, even though I have ideas. Once we are REALLY immortal, cannot be killed by disease, Earth blowing up, someone shooting you in the face and so on - we have all the time left in the Universe to develop and the possibilities become endless. So for me that is the one most single important step - even if it happens before AI or after AI, I still feel it's the more important one. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/02/2009 11:36 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	But this time is different. Everything before was dumber than our brains. The Singularity is when technology gets entirely smarter than our brains. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/02/2009 2:58 PM by James_Jaeger	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	>we have all the time left in the Universe to develop and the possibilities become endless. But right now the MoronMonkeys are in charge of the planet and the thing isn't even backed up. James [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/02/2009 11:15 PM by /:setAI	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	when it is not possible to determine if one's reality/memory/identity is artificial or fictional- through becoming software- from that point on the ontology of Physis will transform to the Metaverse of Nous [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/03/2009 1:33 AM by pdco68	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Set Thank God you’re back, I’ve been worried about you. when it is not possible to determine if one's reality/memory/identity is artificial or fictional- Certain people have already had their singularity, using that definition. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/03/2009 2:00 AM by Phillippe	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	No need to worry, setAI has been investing quality time into his blog. It is now greatly expanded, here is one small snippet from "Horizons of Computation": it seems that if there is any overarching theme to all my ideas about Cosmic Computation/ physics/ technology it is the nature of the optimal recursive algorithmic computation that obtains at the event horizons of singularities: Ontology: the Cosmic Singularity/ Omega Singularity/ the Ouroboros- the Cosmic Singularity acts as a fundamental feedback logic gate that computes the Multiverse- universes are the decoherred patterns of feedback reflected bit-states forming an attractor space around the event horizon [formed by feed back paths] of the Cosmic Singularity Cosmology: the universe we observe is virtually produced by a computational version of Lee Smolin's Fecund Universes or Alan Guth's Eternal Inflation where the immanent fractal configuration space of the Cosmic Singularity's feedback computation produces reflections of the Singularity ITSELF throughout the fractal hierarchy- singularities which compute a copy to the Multiverse- each universe with physical laws emergent from computational process of the Singularity [Entropy=Time/accelerated expansion of space- Gravity/locality/space=slowed bandwidth from increased information density- Many World Quantum Mechanics= recursive algorithmic sorting] containing more singularities which again compute the Multiverse- an endless fractal hierarchy of singularities and complex event horizons which repeat the fractal- each a reflection of the Cosmic Singularity- each singularity giving birth to and given birth by the same singularity in an eternal fractal recursion- Technology: by using nanotechnology in the form of nano-lasers technology will reach it's optimal and ultimate level when regions of the quantum vacuum can be stimulated by high energy nano-scale gamma lasers into behaving like the event horizon of a black hole and thus perform optimal classical/quantum computation- if the quantum vacuum can be programmed then we will be gods- able to create any physically possible object at will- teleport/access to any region or universe in the Multiverse and any possible knowledge- outlive and outlast matter and spacetime itself What else is there to say? This is a very fecund cosmological thoughtscape. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/03/2009 10:07 AM by Virgilic	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	when we will find answers faster then we can ask questions [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: When will you BELIEVE that we have reached Singularity? posted on 11/03/2009 8:01 PM by zombiefood	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	the evolution of intelligent machines came with the use of the first stone tool. the time since then is an instant in the history of life on earth. we are in the time from when the coin leaves your thumb and when it hits the ground. we are in the tiny bit of time between the begining of technology and its conclusion. it is before, now and when it ends. for us paradise looms. we are opening the door to the garden. it is so close i can smell it. only the ones who try to sequester it for themselves will delay this destiny. that is futile [Reply] [Parent]