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		Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 1:41 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	And soon, they will be putting the movie industry out of business. They are increasingly becoming an economic and political force. http://www.gamespot.com/news/6238638.html?tag=late stheadlines;title;1 http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/modernwarfare2/n ews.html?sid=6214826&mode=news http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/695345/Chinas-On line-Gaming-Market-To-Hit-38-Billion-In-2009.html But, the most important part, WHY this is so: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/index.ht ml?v=d3:teaser http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/index.ht ml?v=d3:wizardtrailer http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/index.ht ml?v=wrath:cinematic http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/index.ht ml?v=sc2:teaser http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/games/videos/index.ht ml?v=sc2:battlereport4 http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=58978704 9864 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkoi6WCCJHY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TDDUSc3FQA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEPUX7hUmDw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxr_4sZ7w7k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsLXQEeLiI0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utW53uzpjUA [Reply]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:11 PM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	It would be awesome if you could occasionally provide a summary analysis for your more unusual statements. To show that you understand them mostly. I am sure that if I took the time to sit and watch all these videos and read all these links, none of them would say "video games are more important than real life." [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:29 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	The title of the thread is pure provocation. The videos are a primer for those who may not have paid much attention to video games, and need a quick catch up to the state of the art, feel free to add more that I may have missed, I just included those that I've seen have that EPIC feel, to portray the emotional impact, and hence how they can affect our reward centers (much in the same way a movie can - only getting better than movies). Why do people insist that everything has to summarized in an opening statement? The first post was just my hook. Just found this: http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2009-11-03/8253 /Mind-games/ It’s hard to explain if you’ve never played. Chess to me was one of the first games I remember having a complete infatuation with as a kid. My older sister by seven years grew up longing that her younger brothers would eventually engage enough mental ability to be come a more interactive playmate. This was a process she did her best to speed up by trying to teach us how to read, play and compete at a very young age. Besides being able to read “If You Give a Mouse a Cookie” and “Goodnight Moon” before entering kindergarten, I also had a firm grasp on the basics of checkers and Go Fish. Watching my sister and parents slide polished wooden figures of crowns, castles and horses across the board in what seemed like completely random ways fascinated me. With cool sounding names like pawn, king, rook and knight, I was dying to command my own army. I begged to learn and my sister begged me to play and the two eventually met sometime after I began school. I don’t remember the first game or how old I might have been, but I remember cheating and faking most of the moves because at first I couldn’t keep it all straight. After learning how to play came the dark, yet intriguing times of perpetual loss. I rarely grew tired of playing and I never won. A few years later my younger brother came into the strategic fold and my skills had increased dramatically; I may have even won a game or two. Now before 10 I’d learned every board game I could get my hands on, chess, Risk and Stratego, were my favorites. My brother, although younger, shared my excitement and potential for the strategy games. He has adopted the life-long role of respected opponent on a number of competitive gaming fields. Then this thing happened which changed the landscape of our pastime completely: Someone invented the video game. In the early years, hopping a two-dimensional Italian plumber across a psychedelic world of carnivorous plants and hostile flying turtles (Mario Brothers) was great amusement, but it couldn’t hold a candle to the type of versatile competitiveness gleaned from a checked board. Over the years, games developed with incredible speed. Today, I log into my Xbox 360 account and join a team of eight comprised of nationalities across the globe. Our objective this Saturday afternoon is to capture our opponent’s flag, hidden deep in their base and guarded by a similar troop of eight players. Using the advantages of cover, superior fire power, flanking techniques and suppression, we were able to achieve our objective in a pitched battle of cooperation. The key to online victory is teamwork. It’s a game of strategic leverage mixed in with modern miracles of high definition and surround sound. If you’re a person completely foreign to the concept of a modern video game, I feel you’re missing out on something completely remarkable. There are a lot of different games, but a few of the more strategic tend to be one of the three following. Puzzle-solving: like Tetris or Bejeweled or any mindless time versus pattern recognition and adaptation strategy games. (Tic-tac-toe anyone?) First -person: You’re in the shoes of the hero, that barrel sticking out in front of you is the gun you’re carrying – now go find a friend and try and shoot in the right direction. In these “real-life” simulators, you have to pay attention to your environment, coordinate efforts with other players and know your game’s weaponry. The third group are the true modern strategy games. They include complex arrangements of buildings, units and terrain. Some include tutorials that take up to an hour to complete which teach you the basics of managing a virtual economy, warfare and infrastructure growth. Think of SIM City and Risk, but on a scale of depth so great there is now way to explain them in general terms. These games tend to scare off most ordinary people because watching a person play can appear to be so very labor intensive – it seems more like real work. Honestly sometimes it is, but the challenge and competitiveness is what it’s all about. Since we started playing games at about the time Nintendo was born to present, my brother and I gained an eerie perspective on just how far computers have come. You see a common factor: playing any game often means matching wits against the computer. In the first decade that was a no-brainier. Computers are very fast and very organized, but they are also unable to adapt as well to a wide range of changing factors. In each match you find a number of convoluted differences from the last, which works against the Artificial Intelligence’s (AI) advantages. AI is what a lot of gamers call the computer’s ability to compete with human players. They are infamous for being predictable, but relentless. A computer never gets caught up in the action or forgets to keep an eye on a weak point in the heat of battle – things people are prone to. But a computer never seems to realize when to seize the moment or adapt quickly to a random development – something the human mind can do in a flash. However, over the years I’ve had the strange sensation of watching these AIs develop into opponents that nearly mock every aspect of a human mind – something I must admit I thought they’d never be able to do. Spending the last two decades banging heads with computers in games of chance and strategy has given me a window of comparison into just how far technology has come. The constant competitiveness and the drive to adapt to different games I have no doubt has only improved my mind’s ability to process. So the next time you see the kids tapping away at the controller or the keyboard, remember there is worth to video games. If you read this and have a hard time understanding where I’m coming from, remember what I said about chess. It’s hard to explain if you’ve never played. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:38 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Also, Video games are one of the fastest growing industries in the world (want to an investment tip: invest in Blizzard Activision NOW, before Starcraft 2 comes out...you will make A LOT of money). It's big business, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is expected to rake in $500 million in it's first week alone. They are now competing with big hollywood blockbusters, and I believe that video games will win out. You get more value for your dollar in a video game. They cross cultural boundaries (ever heard of gold farming? it's one of the funniest emergent issues in video games, and it really underscores the differences between eastern and western cultures). Video games help drive both AI and BCI research. Gaming has biological roots. Gaming is one of the cornerstones of the Singularity. Video games are also getting involved in the open source movement, through the mod'ing development community (SC2 is starting a service on Bnet2 that will allow publishers an opportunity to make cash for their creations - provided they're good enough - AND they are using it as a talent scouting tool for possible employment by Blizzard -- hopefully we'll see many, many companies follow this trend, and maybe we can solve unemployment ;) ) [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:41 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Did you know that in Korea Starcraft is practically considered a national sporting event, and that they actually have starcraft camps (I use the word 'camp because I couldn't think of a better word for it), where they train people 24/7 JUST TO PLAY SC? [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:49 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Swden recently (I don't know what the status is on this currently) was trying to pass a tax on in-game sales of virtual objects. WoW implemented Twitter into it's UI (ok, this was a user generated mod, but still). Bnet2 is implementing a full chat/message social networking system that will interpenetrate all of it's games. People use Second Life for training seminars, and the president of Portugal even recently broadcasted a speech live in Second Life. So, what's more real now, "Real Life" or "Virtual Life"? The answer, to any transhumanist, or singulartarian, should be obvious by now. With all the ideas that get thrown around here, this kind of feels like an old mans club, I think people should be connecting more to gamers and users of virtual worlds - because you'd probably reach a wider audience. I think Extropia has the right idea. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:51 PM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	The title of the thread is pure provocation. Perhaps. But you have said this enough times in different ways for someone to readily conclude that this is your view. To the degree that is true, this would be a great example of subjectivity. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 2:55 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Do you have anything to say about video games? [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 3:34 PM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Do you have anything to say about video games? Yes. Video games are less important than real life. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 3:38 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	hgrayston22, thank you for bumping the interesting threads. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 4:18 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Games are BECOMING real life. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 5:00 PM by Zoosh Badlegs	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Got to applaud you Pan, you really know how to attract the stalkers. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 5:55 PM by A.I.Lover	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Well to be fair currently games are not as "real" as "life" but i am actually expecting them to get to a point where they feel just as real and way more flexible. Sort like the Matrix but this one you control everything and you set the rules you want to follow. I think this is groundbreaking and encourages such a diversity of tastes and views ! It's really amazing when you consider the possibilities. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 10:09 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	hgrayston22, you spend quite a bit of time on websites. Are websites a part of the real world? Would you prefer a more immersive web experience? [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 9:39 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I didn't realize that the industry was also moving into charity territory, but this just strengthens my points: http://www.onebiggame.org/mission.html OneBigGame helps children in need through the creative & collective power of the videogames industry. It is a charitable organization that seeks to raise money to solve problems afflicting children everywhere, by creating videogames through a collaborative industry-wide effort. By doing so, it connects both gamers and games creators with the charitable cause and shows how the videogames industry as a whole can have a positive effect on the lives of children throughout the world. Play, so others can How we raise funds OneBigGame raises funds for its charity causes by selling games. These games are specifically created for OneBigGame by some of the most well respected names in the field of videogames, as a charitable donation. Famous game designers and high profile development studios all collaborating and contributing to create a unique portfolio of games for OneBigGame. Next to this, OneBigGame will also invite the indie development community to create games for its initiative. OneBigGame will take all these original games and publish them on its casual games download portal at OneBigGame.org, which will go live later this year. Next to this, it will distribute them via a network of gaming sites. And of course, OneBigGame will aim to generate substantial amounts of publicity surrounding the release of these games, to ensure they reach as broad an audience as possible and generate as much money for charity as possible. Being a public benefit non-profit, OneBigGame will donate all revenue generated by its games directly to its charity partners, only deducting the costs of running the organization and hosting the games portal. Effectively then, OneBigGame is the world’s first non-profit publisher of videogames, trying to make the world a better place through a number of great little games. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 10:32 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	http://k21st.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/the-future-o f-gaming/ I have tried to capture some hints about the future of gaming. As the author remarks: “For now, the only way to predict the future of gaming is to predict that all predictions will be wrong.” Yet, it seems that in the not so far future, games are going to deeply affect the way we perceive our world. Especially the younger generations will be affected, and to some extent it is already happening. It seems that eventually games will not only affect our perception of the world, they WILL become a substantial part of our world. Where brilliant thinkers like da Vinci, H. G. Wells, and Mandelbrot inspired much of the world around us today, the world of tomorrow, the very world where we will be spending the later years of our lives, is now being imagined inside the young minds of today’s gamers When SimCity founder Will Wright introduced his latest project, Spore, demonstrating the next generation organic content builder at the TED conference in 2007, he not only turned heads, but radically shifted the thinking of the entire gaming industry. Jane McGonigal, a game designer that MIT Technology Review named as one of the top 35 innovators changing the world, and an expert at blurring traditional boundaries, focuses on how the games we play can change the way we experience the real world. At WIRED Magazine’s 2007 NextFest, special headbands measuring brainwaves served at the controllers for a game called “Brain Ball. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 10:54 PM by NanoStuff	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	When SimCity founder Will Wright introduced his latest project, Spore, demonstrating the next generation organic content builder at the TED conference in 2007, he not only turned heads, but radically shifted the thinking of the entire gaming industry. Too bad the game sucked. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 10:57 PM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	“For now, the only way to predict the future of gaming is to predict that all predictions will be wrong.” He also notes that the wrongest ones of all are those suggesting that video games will replace reality. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 11:41 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	hgrayston22, you are a troll. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/03/2009 11:58 PM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Video games are challenging to create, demanding imagination and amazing development skills. But not to use. I know people who spend way too much time playing video games. They tend to be emotionally and intellectually stunted. Their addiction to video gaming says more about their lack of an rewarding reality, not that video games are inherently superior to reality. Some video games you can learn from, but not many. Most video games are mindless shoot 'em ups. Certainly the ones that keep the bacon on the table of these companies, that is the case. When you play video games you are living the product of someone else's imagination, not your own. Read a good book, it will work your mind a lot more. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 2:11 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Video games are challenging to create, demanding imagination and amazing development skills. And storytelling skills. One of the things most video games have been seriously lacking in, until recently. One of the things I've been pointing out (and why I believe that video games are eclipsing movies) is that society is moving away from the consumer/producer relationship to one where consumers are simultaneously producers. Clay Shirky accurately recognizes this trend, in everything from social media to videogames. The means of production of content are being open sourced and put into the hands of consumers, making them producers. And now that people have a taste of this, they won't forget it. But not to use. You're merely looking at video games as they were in the past, and fail to recognize the migration that is occurring. I know people who spend way too much time playing video games. They tend to be emotionally and intellectually stunted. Many people who were far, far ahead of their time were viewed this way. Their addiction to video gaming says more about their lack of an rewarding reality, not that video games are inherently superior to reality. Why is there this split between 'reality' and 'video games'? This is only anachronism. I think gamers are pioneers of a new frontier. Our culture is being virtualized, and gamers are the mavericks of that new paradigm. Some video games you can learn from, but not many. Actually, most. Most video games are mindless shoot 'em ups. Those 'mindless' shoot 'em ups are used by the military to train soldiers tactical combat. Certainly the ones that keep the bacon on the table of these companies, that is the case. Ah, still thinking with the hindbrain, if it doesn't feed you or suck your dick, it's worthless? When you play video games you are living the product of someone else's imagination, not your own. This, to some extent, was the case in the past. If you looked a little harder at the situation (and paid attention to some of the things I've been trying to point out) you'd see that this gap is closing. This is EXACTLY what I've been trying to explain is changing when I talk about the mod'ing community. Some of the best games on the market now ship with content design tools included as part of the standard package. Not only does this make the consumers producers, it also nurtures artistic skills, AND programming skills. Many people who begin with this software go on to learn more advanced forms of programming, and have FUN doing it. I'm predicting that soon all content creation will be outsourced to a game's customers (this is mainly do to the fact that games take entirely too long to produce, and are a bottleneck...this will be easily solved when game producers restrict themselves to creating just the engines and mod'ing software, leaving the scripting and storytelling to the customers - this essentially turns all it's users into a kind of movie producer/director) Read a good book, it will work your mind a lot more. Reading is soooooo 20th century (btw, I've been an obsessive reader my entire life - I used to get detention because I refused to pay attention in class - I was reading instead - and I still say reading is a thing of the past - I started reading the Bhagavad Gita and the Qaballah when I was 10). I've got a world to build. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFpg271sm8 [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 2:23 AM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Each one of your responses are defensive, buttressing my points. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:25 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Each one of your responses are defensive, buttressing my points. Your mom's defensive. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 2:39 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	hgrayston22, your opinions on technology match those of my grandmother. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 2:49 AM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	your opinions on technology match those of my grandmother We are talking about video games, not technology in general, in this thread. What perspective did your grandma have on video games? [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 10:53 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Actually, we're talking about the progressive virtualization of our culture, videogames are just an inoccuous example that is creeping up on people who are unaware, people like you who cannot see the larger patterns at work. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:03 AM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	videogames are just an inoccuous example This is more reasonable. You are capable of listening after all. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:25 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	By 'inoccuous' I mean that Thuddites like you won't see it coming. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:35 AM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	inoccuous innocuous [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:37 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Go prickle someone else. http://www.neticons.net/prickles/prickles.swf [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:47 AM by hgrayston22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	You are a perfect illustration of the quasi-literate future. Nothing screams "credibility" like repeated misspellings of simple words. If you are going to explain those big words to us stupid folk, at least spell them correctly. It makes your arrogance seem slightly less hilarious. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/04/2009 11:53 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Stop trying to compensate for your small penis. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games Charity posted on 11/08/2009 9:21 AM by martuso	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	When you play video games you are living the product of someone else's imagination, not your own. Read a good book, it will work your mind a lot more. Don't mean to butt in, but when you read a good book, you are also living the product of someone else's imagination. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 10:40 PM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	The computational capacity of the "real world" probably still beats video games, but what's missing in the real world is the augmentation and brute force logic capacity of games. I didn't realize that Starcraft was so popular in Korea, but that makes sense. (It's too bad they are 50% Christian now, that's sad.) Certainly Starcraft is where people can use strategy to compete in a pattern that mirrors warfare and corporate management. I think there could be a time when games are more important than or almost as important as the real world. After the singularity, the real world might ultimately be more important than the virtual world because the real world will probably contain the final off switches; but we might access the real world through "virtual" environments (whatever that means). Physical location and physical substrate will probably be an important and possibly even dynamic factor after the singularity. I also think that, after the singularity, virtual reality will not just be about simulating artificial physical environments, but about participating in various patterns that are not necessarily simulations of anything at all. "Simulation" will mean "less consequential than the rest of the world", but "simulations" will be extremely important for training, education, research, etc. I guess I just don't see a huge difference between simulation and real world in the distant future. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/03/2009 11:55 PM by gawell	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	What is real? What supports you? All known elements would need to be present for minimal survivability and sustainability, anything else threatens a suicide mission beyond reasonable odds that can likely include all manner of unexpected consequences and surprises that might involve some previously unknown or undiscovered elements. It's getting the optimal mix of all known ingredients, the main goal will be to understand the value or not of so-called nuisance species (i.e. pests), to an extent that some may be a vital catalyst that will somehow might 'save the day', when all else fails to overcome an intractable problem. High risk demands high hopes and a well stocked larder. Miniaturization will go a long way to help solve the storage problem, one key question is what are we not taking that remains a hidden variable. Gamers are as real as the games they play, there are no non-gamers, no non-players, some names have been altered to reflect some social.political.emotive.corporate set&settings, whatever gets you through a night or day alive is real enough to merit some respect and its due of honor and remembrance. What excited you today/tonight? How these acts are labeled is less important than their behaviors that sustain rather than choke the lifeblood from your cold hard clenched fist raised in anger, disdain, or complete and utter lack of imagination. Oh this is real, it hurts, oh this is real, it stinks, oh this is more real than your real, my real can beat your real to smithereens, my real real is even more fake than your fake fake. There is nothing that is unreal than you can make you feel, make you think, make you move. Oscar said there is importance in being earnest, sincere...who is more sincere? Video/virtual gamers? Central authority figures, stick in the muds, cutting edge physics major dudes, oh wait they call their 'games' simulations and they are 'actually' important. Wonder how they got started with all that.....Dude, seriously. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 1:03 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	There are various orders of rank based on various factors. One factor is decentralization. Decentralized systems are often considered to be more "real" than centralized systems. This makes sense because centralized systems have more accessible off switches. Often games rely on centralized systems. In my mind, this makes them of lower rank in a certain sense: If games were integrated with the social hierarchy, people would use the social hierarchy to dismantle the game (the "off switch") for those without power in the hierarchy. But sometimes, how compelling an experience is trumps security. There are no clear lines, but there are many different orders of rank in combination. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 5:58 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Did someone use the term 'mindless shooters'? In such games, you typically have to choose the tactic that is most likely to succeed among many choices, and your options change from moment to moment, due to the dynamics of the other players (and, increasingly with things like deformable geometry, the changing environment.) The best player can take in visual and audio information and, in under a second, process that information, form an optimal solution and carry it out. Believe me, a person playing such games mindlessly would be cut down every time by the player using on-the-spot strategy and coordination with her teammates. Saying videogames are more important than real life seems a bit over-the-top to me. But, to a person interested in the Singularity and its enabling technologies, videogames stand out because they are the closest you can get to cutting-edge simulation, AI, computer-user interfaces etc if you are not smart/ lucky enough to be enrolled at MIT, CALTECH or DARPA. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 9:34 AM by exapted	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Excellent point. Such games are obviously not moralistic or conventional enough for hgrayston22. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 11:13 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	In such games, you typically have to choose the tactic that is most likely to succeed among many choices, and your options change from moment to moment, due to the dynamics of the other players (and, increasingly with things like deformable geometry, the changing environment.) The best player can take in visual and audio information and, in under a second, process that information, form an optimal solution and carry it out. Believe me, a person playing such games mindlessly would be cut down every time by the player using on-the-spot strategy and coordination with her teammates. And this is why the military uses them for training. Saying videogames are more important than real life seems a bit over-the-top to me. And it makes a great hook to get people to come and write responses :) But, to a person interested in the Singularity and its enabling technologies, videogames stand out because they are the closest you can get to cutting-edge simulation, AI, computer-user interfaces etc if you are not smart/ lucky enough to be enrolled at MIT, CALTECH or DARPA. And, to an extent, video games (or more importantly, virtualization in general) IS starting to become real life....how much time do people spend on their mobile devices (often playing games on them as well)? how much time are people spending in Second Life (which I only marginally consider to be a 'game'), and what are they doing there? training nurses in CPR? giving lectures/seminars on emerging technology? having 'sex'? This thread could be about the convergence of two main ideas: gaming itself (which goes back thousands of years, or longer - if someone wants to debate the importance of 'gaming' we need to include cards, dice, chess, go, and the evolution of risk-taking strategies - the number of fields this covers is broad is my point) and virtualization. Video games are just the convergence of the two: gaming and virtualization. And it's intriguing to watch this convergence. Some people just want to be nay sayers, and defend the old paradigm and their institutions. This is why I also try to include info and links about the financial side of things, specifically to try and head those people off at the pass, before they open their stoopid mouths. GTA4 surpassed $500 million in sales in the FIRST WEEK last year. Modern Warfare 2 is expected to do even better. Video games are already more than a billion dollar industry and GROWING. This industry suffered no set backs during this recession (it experienced continued GROWTH). In korea, Starcraft is on par with being a NATIONAL SPORT. Starcraft 2 of course is going to blow that out of the water (I'm serious when I say investing in Blizzard is a great idea). And also, finally, some companies (I point out Blizzard, because I'm a fan, and I play their games, but I'm sure their are, or will be many other examples as well) are putting the capacity to be involved in the creative process (through their content mod'ing software) of their games into the hands of their consumers, effectively transforming consumers into consumers/producers (conducers?) - shaking up the traditional relationship of producer--->consumer - AND providing the means for these new conducers to SELL their work online via Battlenet2. It's fricken ingenious. Have you heard of 'Defense of the Ancients' (DotA), and 'Demigod'? This is a great example of what comes out of this software package. Briefly (for those who never heard of this), DotA was a mod built for Blizzard's game Warcraft 3, and it quickly became the MOST popular form of playing WC3...most people stopped playing the game that Blizzard had made, and played DotA instead. It was like wildfire. It inspired some developers to go on to making a polished, independent version of DotA called 'Demigod', a game in itself, but one which never would have been made if it hadn't been for the inspiration and ingenuity of the people who made DotA - people tinkering around with content creation tools in their spare time...and it's led to an extremely successful video game. Valve is another similar success story. These companies are realizing that these tools, which used to be tacked on to their games as an afterthought, are bolstering their own business, and have become an industry standard. It's an example of successful open sourcing in the video game industry. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 11:14 AM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Oh, was getting carried away in my diatribe, almost forgot... Extropia: thanks :) [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 7:38 AM by A.I.Lover	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Talking about games Heavy Rain for PS3 due to first trimester of 2010. Besides awesome graphcis (for a PS3 system)it will be heavy on emotion, story telling and making your own choices that will shape the story. Meaning it's not about shooting, not about drivign a car and it is not a rpg. I think the closest thing to it would be the adventure genre but still not quite. It is sort of like an interactive movie only better. Check it out! [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 3:24 PM by A.I.Lover	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	http://www.gametrailers.com/video/trophies-and-hea vy-rain/58563 A short interview with the game developer, all in game scenes shown are fully playable. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/04/2009 6:18 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18112-virtua l-crashes-and-clatters-get-real.html?DCMP=OTC-rss& nsref=tech http://tinyurl.com/y9y7y5s (video) The clatter of a dropped trash can and the crash of a cymbal – both easily recognisable sounds. That's why computer games or CGI movies that feature such noises use samples recorded from life, not generated by software as the graphics have been. It would take weeks of intense computing to synthesise the sound of a single cymbal clash. New methods developed at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, change that and could make objects in games and movies sound more like those in real life. Thin shells The sounds the new method targets are those made by "thin shells": objects like clashing cymbals or falling plastic bottles, whose thickness is much smaller than their other dimensions. They typically produce loud sounds – think of hail falling on a tin roof – because the thin shell readily vibrates and radiates sound into the surrounding space. But they defy the acoustic computer models normally used to reproduce virtual sounds in games and films, says Doug James at Cornell. Those models assume that the dominant vibrations in an object act independently, an approach that works well for a chime, say. But the sound of a thin shell like a clashing cymbal results from dominant oscillations coupling with and influencing one another. "If you include those neglected non-linear contributions, you start recovering some of the richer sounds," James says. But although simulating complex interacting vibrations is vital to the design of everything from aircraft to nanoscale structures, "the standard thin-shell vibration models can be prohibitively slow for sound rendering", he says. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/05/2009 6:21 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	If you live in an urban area, as I suspect most of us do, your environment is every bit as artificial as Second Life. The only difference is that cities grow over a period of decades from the emergent activity of people engaged in economic actions, whereas SL grew over a period of years. Other than that, one is no more and no less artificial than the other. Also, think about what dominates most of our lives. Things like money and fashion are clearly virtual constructs. They have value only by mutual agreement. If I believe this slip of paper is worth 10 bucks and you believe likewise, then it IS worth 10 bucks. But it has very little intrinsic value above and beyond mutual agreement. Finally, if you want to define the human species, you are not far wrong to opt for 'the storytelling animal'. There has never been a human culture in all history that did not indulge in storytelling. Anthropologists think the art of storytelling evolved because it was a useful tool for an animal living in complex societies. In order to follow a story, you need to be able to model the mind of someone else, after all. Because we are the storytelling animal, our lives are not just influenced by physical people we actually meet, but also virtual people who we only interact with through the medium of virtual reality. People in stories, people in films and TV, people in videogames and various other online services. Doug Hoffstadter has argued that what really matters is not the fact/fiction dimension of a person, but how fine-grained your model of them is. So, if you are a real Simpson's fan and you have a good understanding of what sort of person Homer Simpson is, he is more real to you than the person who served you at the checkout this time last week, whose face you can now barely recall. So to me it is not a case of videogames and online worlds taking over real life, but rather enriching (not always, of course) the virtual reality we often mistake for real life. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/05/2009 1:57 PM by Pandemonium1323	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18115-sony-d emos-game-controller-to-track-motion-and-emotion.h tml http://tinyurl.com/yl6t9g2 (w/video) The latest games console arms race – to perfect hands-free, full-body game control – just got more competitive. Sony has unveiled just such a system called Interactive Communication Unit or ICU, at the Vision 2009 trade fair in Stuttgart, Germany. It uses stereo cameras to watch a player and, like a pair of eyes, to judge depth. Microsoft unveiled its own full body controller in the summer summer, Project Natal, due to be released for the Xbox 360 games console late in 2010. Like Natal, Sony's system tracks a person's whole body without their having to wear the body markers used in motion-capture studios. Also like Natal, Sony says ICU can detect a player's emotions by watching their facial expressions, and can judge sex and approximate age from their appearance. Full-body tracking Sony Europe's image-sensing division created ICU in collaboration with Atracsys, a small firm in Lausanne, Switzerland, that specialises in optical tracking. Atracsys already sells a system that gives medics hands-free control of computers in sterile environments, called Infinitrack. But its users have to wear small reflective markers like those used in a movie industry motion-capture studio; previous versions required users to wear particular colours. Casual users can't be expected to do that, says Gaëtan Marti, CEO of Atracsys, which limits the system's precision. Finger signs "We cannot at present detect 'finger signs' [but] we can detect where you are looking at on the screen – up, middle, down – and the raw position of your arms [or legs]," he says. ICU's stereo cameras can detect the position of specific points on the arms, legs and head to within 10 cubic centimetres, compared with the 0.2 cubic millimetre accuracy of Infinitrack. ICU 'reads' facial expressions using a pattern-matching algorithm that has been trained on pictures of people expressing different emotions. Using cues such as the position and shape of the lips, ICU spots five basic states: happiness, anger, surprise, sadness and neutral. It also has the ability to tune out the visual clutter around a player that could otherwise distort its results. "Once it detects a face 2 metres in front of the cameras, the system can isolate the person by only keeping the information between 1.5 and 2.5 metres away," Marti says. Immersive advertising Sophisticated as it is, however, ICU isn't yet going to be launched into the punishing domestic entertainment market, says Arnaud Destruels, marketing manager at Sony's image-sensing division. "It's clear that if the consumer has a bad experience with the technology they could reject it without giving it a second chance." Instead ICU is going to be launched first into the world of advertising, which will be its training ground, says Destruels. Interactive shop windows and billboards will provide a chance to iron out wrinkles in the system and to familiarise people with the concept, he says. Real-time problem Christian Theobalt, at the Max Planck Institute for Informatics in Saarbrücken, Germany, agrees that people won't be forgiving of a novel interface's failings. "For the consumer to accept this technology it has to work robustly in real time." Last year Theobalt developed a markerless motion-capture system that uses eight cameras and can track even the sway of clothing. But its footage has to be processed after the fact, a luxury ICU doesn't have. "If real-time performance is the goal, one has to reduce complexity, which reduces the accuracy one achieves," he explains. Sony will have to balance aiming for complex gesture recognition with the need for dependable performance. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Video Games are more Important than Real Life posted on 11/05/2009 4:15 PM by extrasolar	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	life is a video game - right now you only get 1 up [Reply] [Parent]