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		I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/22/2005 1:31 AM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	It seems that no matter what I go through, I never seem to die. I've had several close-to-death events. Despite many of the things I went through however, I still live. One event that comes to mind would take place in the summer between 3rd and 4th Grade (IIRC). I was having serious asthma problems and went to sleep with considerably shallow breathing. At approximately 1 AM, I had very EXTREMELY shallow breathing when Dad woke me up. He then took me to a supermarket to get me an inhaler. Now that I think of it, I think that was very, very miraculous (I assume via divine intervention) because what was Dad doing that early in the morning? How did he sense that I had serious trouble breathing? But after doing some self-study on Quantum Immortality, I have reason to believe that I died in my sleep that night, but woke up in an alternate universe, of course not being aware of that. I don't remember what my dream was from that night but God knows if I had gone to Heaven briefly only to be told that I'll still live a full life in an alternate universe every time I "die" in a previous one, and certainly not remember such events. I've had other close calls with death ever since, and am becoming sure that I've died those times in other universes too, but survived so that I'm alive in this one. Here is something of note from a Quantum Immortality Wiki on Wikipedia: "Imagine that a physicist detonates a nuclear bomb located beside her. In almost all parallel universes, the nuclear explosion will vaporize the physicist. However, there should be a small set of alternate universes in which the physicist somehow survives (ie. the set of universes which support a "miraculous" survial scenario)." I think in all of the alternate universes that she survives in, she may have simply decided against detonating the bomb at all, or may have even chosen an entirely different line of work so that she never comes near a nuclear bomb. Likewise, earlier in my life, I may have decided to turn right at an intersection where I otherwise would have gone straight and gotten killed by an oncoming 18-wheeler! Now you are thinking, "But why is there still death in the world?" To that I'd reply, "They're probably alive and well in another alternate universe. They might have been foraging on top of a hill when the tsunami struck, or in some alternate universes, the tsunami never even happened!" As soon as someone dies, they probably just leave this universe and pick up where they (more nominally) left off in another. Now you see why there have been no widespread nuclear exchanges yet? In previous universes, we may have wiped ourselves out clean. You see, supernatural (and/or quantum) forces were at work to ensure a nuclear holocaust "never" happened. There were times in history that we EASILY could've gone through it and wipe out humanity, but it goes to show you that Quantum Immortality also (possibly) works on a GLOBAL level. By now, you may have also thought, "But when we get old, will we still live forever anyway, from the first-person point of view?" There have been 900+ year-old biblical characters for one, there were also 150+ year-old people later in human history, and the oldest living human today (if current) is a 125 or 126 year-old woman from Brazil. Not to mention that Ray Kurzweil's dream of immortality due to medicinal advances will (hopefully) come true, or already has, even before Ray was even born (in some universes)! You think that's unrealistic? Someone on this board several weeks back said that some luminary figured that there are "10^10^123 possible states in the universe" (or perhaps all universes for this matter). You can never imagine how much that is. But with that many states possible, people may have even found in antiquity an easily-grown herb that universally grants immortality to those who consume it. That herb may have been formed if something different happened in nature 7 millenia ago, or may have been on Lemuria at one point for all we know. This explains the possibility that anyone who died in ANCIENT times whether of old age or anything else in our universe is thriving happily in an alternate one. So have you ever held a gun? If so, then you've killed yourself in many universes, by accident and on purpose, accidentally discharged the gun and killed others in many others, or someone may have done the same to you. But in this universe, you were more careful while holding it, then put it back, and live the life you're living now. I'd explain more possible scenarios that have happened to you and may have happened to you in a parallel universe but I'm sure you've gotten the idea by now. =) [Reply]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/22/2005 4:34 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Is this something to do with the Many Worlds interpretation if quantum mechanics? If so, maybe you would be prepared to try the following test that was suggested by Max Tegmark. Take an old-fashioned revolver, one that holds six bullets. Put three bullets in alternate holes, thereby giving you a 50/50 chance of being lucky. Put gun at head and pull trigger. Still with us? Do it again. Keep doing it. Ok, you've done it one hundred times or more and your luck has not run out. But hang on, you are beating odds of billions to one by now, surely you are not THAT lucky? Well, no... Each time you pulled the trigger, IF Many worlds is true, reality split in two. In one reality you are dead, another you live. But as you obviously only have awareness in the latter reality that means you can pull the trigger for as many turns as you like and will never 'die'. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/22/2005 5:14 AM by TimothyTimothyTimothy	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Personally, I would recommend this only as a "thought experiment"! [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/22/2005 12:02 PM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I think the way to survive that experiment is when the gun jams. In other universes (including this one, from what I can tell), I just decide not to use the gun at all. That's ALSO how I survive. In some universes, I kill myself, which brings me to this universe, where I survive by not even getting a gun! -Life Event: Could Have Drowned in Frozen River- Another close-to-death event that I had was in my Sophomore year of high school. This was also in the wintertime. One day I went on a hike and decided to walk on the frozen river ice. Plenty of time into my hike, I stepped on thin ice and fell. Luckily, it was only 2-3 feet deep, much to my surprise! I even had a backpack on so if I was in a much deeper part of the river, I may have drowned! This was in the MIDDLE of the river which was approximately 100 feet wide at that point. (Not quite sure though.) In many alternate universes, I either fell into a deeper part of the river and drowned, or that very part from this universe would've been deeper through some natural change. -Life Event: Could have been shot by some robbers- When I was 7 years old, I was eating at a Dairy Queen with Mom, and we were at a windowside table. Suddenly, robbers came and tried to rob the store. I saw a getaway driver waiting in a car right on the opposite side of the window, and another accomplice waiting outside, right by that car. When I noticed that one of the robbers was getting arrested, I pointed at the getaway driver and yelled (through the window, to the cops), "Hey! Why's he still in the car when you're arresting someone else? Why don't you arrest him too??" At around that time, a cop that positioned his patrol unit right behind the getaway car got out and motioned urgently to move away from the window. Mom then pulled me away, but right before I left my chair, I noticed the robbers' accomplice outside pointing the gun towards the store. I think he even pointed it at me (I'm not sure). Thankfully, he realized though that he couldn't fire the gun because the cops were already there. About 1 minute later, another cop told everyone to leave the store for our own personal safety, and Mom and I left to go our merry way. In alternate realities, the cops might have not been there in time so the accomplice might have shot me! How lucky I was!!! [Reply] [Parent]

		quantum suicide posted on 07/22/2005 2:45 PM by /:setAI	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide in an infinite/eternal multiverse- any possible state is infinitely reproduced- it is axiomatic then that the quantum system of a person at death is also infinitely repeated- and always in some of those universes death is escaped- so 'death' is essentially teleportation into another spacetime locality- be it one just like the world you came from so you notice nothing- or a computational reconstruction- [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/22/2005 6:22 PM by -63...	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	You may remain conscious forever, but you won't necessarily be all that comfortable with it. At worst you could experience a long chain of realities where your suffering is just below the threshold for suicide. I know, I just couldn't resist saying something pessimistic. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/22/2005 9:20 PM by eldras	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I dont see how anything you do can alter anything whatsoever since everything that is possoble happens. that is a given for many worlds theory. we beleive we a special case, and can somehow suspend the laws of the universe, but we are every bit as determined by cause and effect as anything else. You DO commit suicide and you dont at every crossroads. saying we have free will is not wrong, but just a high level description of a process that is quantumly and magnamly determined. The rule is: anything that can happen, DOES happen. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/22/2005 9:48 PM by /:setAI	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	it's nice to see someone who gets that all this immortality stuff is not a blissful fantasy- in a way being is Hell- an orobouros of suffering and all to brief respites- but perhaps Intelligence allows for an eventual release into self-controlled tolerability for all- resurrective technology is a moral obligation of any intelligence- it allows those who suffer a way out of their prisons of suffering [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/23/2005 6:10 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Max Tegmark's experiment has a couple of important drawbacks which I will point out now. 1: You can only prove it to yourself and nobody else. If I am watching you do the experiment, I know that, just because you have survived 100 pulls of the trigger, your luck will run out. On the 101st pull, in one reality you live and another you die. But, in those realities both of me continue to be aware. In fact, for every time you pulled the trigger there were 100 possible 'me's who saw you die and sooner or later it will be MY turn.. 2: We assume it's an either/or choice, but it might not be. Think about the millions of ways in which your brain could be injured doing this experiment... [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/23/2005 6:20 AM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Ok, so the gun experiment is a bit risky. But here is another way in which Many Worlds might be validated: With Quantum Computers. This is taken from Marcus Chown's 'The Universe Next Door': 'There is nothing, in principle, to rule out the possibility of a quantum computer so powerful that it can carry out more calculations at any one time than there are particles in the Universe. But where would such calculations be carried out? After all, if a quantum computer is doing more calculations at any instant than there are particles in the Universe, the Universe simply doesn't have the resources at its disposal to do what the computer is doing. A quantum computer is never short of the resources it needs because it does not rely on a single Universe....In effect, an infinite number of versions of (a quantum computer) will be working on parallel strands of the problem.' And, of course, Many Worlds makes the solution to the famous Grandfather paradox of time travel seem pretty obvious. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/23/2005 1:46 PM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	How many kilowatt-hours (Or megawatt-hours) will a QPC need to run?? How does it keep cool so the college dorm room doesn't turn into a furnace? Or so the college library doesn't turn into a mega-furnace? Also, if it relies on other universes, then could it bring from one of them another self? I wouldn't mind having a twin brother (well, maybe, as usual with anyone's siblings, but it would be cool.) [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: quantum suicide posted on 07/23/2005 4:29 PM by cdnprodigy	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Infinity and everything are not the same. Infinity of real numbers misses 2.5 and pi. You would be vaporized in that nuke, in every one of the finite universes in the multiverse the detonation happened. Initial ionizing radiation misses nothing in the first kilometer or two. If you blow out your brains with a shotgun, you WILL die. Don't do it man. Maybe there is a branch in a universe where "you" don't pull the trigger and keep living, but it isn't "you", anymore than I am "you", or your 10 yr old self is "you". [Reply] [Parent]

		Quantum Immortality despite the Singularity posted on 07/25/2005 4:31 PM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	At least in this Universe, we'll co-exist peacefully with the Singularity and be allowed to procreate ourselves, even necessitating the need for an "everlengthy habitat" in space. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Quantum Immortality despite the Singularity posted on 07/31/2005 4:42 AM by Kubiak200	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I think that I you pull the trigger, you will suffer, and you will feel that you are dying. BUT, when you die you are not going to remember what happened, you will be living in the other reality in one where you were lucky and you survived. So from your point of view you are immortal. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Quantum Immortality despite the Singularity posted on 07/31/2005 2:37 PM by Extropia	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Max Tegmark said 'If the argument (about quantum immortality) is correct, I should expect to be the oldest guy on the planet, which I am not, severely discrediting Everett's idea'. I don't understand this argument. Why should he be the oldest guy? Is it not possible that he happens to inhabit that universe in which he NOT the oldest guy? Someone, explain his reasoning. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: Quantum Immortality despite the Singularity posted on 08/01/2005 11:17 PM by cdnprodigy	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	If you don't remember, it's NOT you. If you awoke from a coma with permanent amnesia, would it be you? The ability to remember how to swim does not constitute identity. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/31/2005 3:15 PM by Master Madeye	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	To me, the many universes theory represents a fundamental error in logic, probably steming from our desire to believe that we could do anything, or anything could happen to us, at any given moment. the way i look at it is that just because some events appear random to us, that is just because we do not have the capacity to predict them. sure, they may be influenced by numerous forces which we have no hope of detecting or comprehending, but i believe that every event in this universe is theoretically predictable, subject to cause and effect, and could not have happened in any other way. Of course, its probably impossible to measure every single factor which influences every single event in our lives, but seriously dont start kidding yourself that everyone that has ever lived is still living in an alternate parrallel universe, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a human body that has not been technologically enhanced to survive in earths atmosphere after a certain duration of time, not just improbable. I hope to god that this theory is not correct anyway, otherwise we all face an eternity of gradually becoming closer to a state of death, whilest somehow still staying alive. It also seemes to me to be an extremely arrogant and self-centred way of looking at things, believing that you and everyone around you is living in your own personal, special universe where as everyone dies around you, you stay alive. sorry about spoiling this party folks, as you've no doubt guessed ive never been a fan of the whole concept! [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/31/2005 3:18 PM by mars22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	we do have the capacity to predict things. i cant remeber the name of it but there is a global project that has random number genaraters on computers,whenever there is a major global anything the numbers average changes from 5 to a higher number. the genaraters range from 0-9 i think,and there average should stay the same,but it doesnt. its like global spidey sense. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/31/2005 3:30 PM by Master Madeye	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Mars-22's post is fascinating if it is correct, as this implies that their is some kind of singular, unified force which causes every major global event, and also influences this random number generator thing. This could be one direct cause of life-changing (or ending) events which most people have no idea exists, and no hope of comprehending, which fits in with my comments nicely. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 07/31/2005 3:56 PM by mars22	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	i cant find the project name now. ive been searching but havent found it yet. i did find a bunch of cool random number generaters for download thou. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 08/01/2005 12:04 PM by EarthBM	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	In any given second, there is an infinite number of universes where you die and an infinite number where you survive. Seems ok pull that trigger, right? Not. While it is impossible to state that one infinity is larger than the other in high scholk algebra, it is possible once you build out the necessary thought infrastructure. Lets say that one infinite set of universes is "larger" (math term is "dominates") than another is it contains the other set entirely and also includes other universes. If you pull the trigger, the set of universes where I am alive will be larger than the set of universes where you are alive. If we decide that being present in as many universes as possible is desirable for a human, pulling the trigger is a dumb thing to do. I took a shortcut in the above paragraph. There will be universes where your gun will jam while I get run over by a bus (with all the references to being run over by a bus, wouldn't the collective human consciousness feel safer if we ban buses as a form of transport?). Still, once you look at the infinite sets of universes across time, I bet there is a way to slice bologna where my universes dominate. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 08/02/2005 7:13 AM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Regarding madeye's post of the impossibility for everyone who has ever lived to still be living, didn't you read my post from earlier? A naturally-made herb could have been formed that would extend people's lives. That herb, in OUR universe, might be found deep underground in an undiscovered cavern, under an ocean, or not be found anywhere at all. Remember, someone said "there are 10^10^123" possible states in the universe. Go ahead, try to figure out how many that is. Actually, don't. In short, many more things are possible than you can ever imagine. [Reply] [Parent]

		Re: I think I'm already immortal. Here's how- posted on 08/02/2005 7:16 AM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	God decides how long we should live. He probably decides to let "you" live for a long time, at least from "your" point of view, although you might not live for long in my universe, or may have lived less in another universe, while you outlived me in yet another. So he probably lets everyone live a long time, but in different universes. Many of what God does is easily unimaginable. [Reply] [Parent]

		Master Madeye... posted on 08/04/2005 11:08 PM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Of course, its probably impossible to measure every single factor which influences every single event in our lives, but seriously dont start kidding yourself that everyone that has ever lived is still living in an alternate parrallel universe, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a human body that has not been technologically enhanced to survive in earths atmosphere after a certain duration of time, not just improbable. I hope to god that this theory is not correct anyway, otherwise we all face an eternity of gradually becoming closer to a state of death, whilest somehow still staying alive. It also seemes to me to be an extremely arrogant and self-centred way of looking at things, believing that you and everyone around you is living in your own personal, special universe where as everyone dies around you, you stay alive... You may hate living far longer than usual in [i]this[/i] universe, so say you commit suicide because you decide you've lived long enough. Once you do, Voila! You're still alive in another universe, not having remembered a single memory engram (no, not one bit) of committing suicide. In fact, you're living happily, enjoying your extra years in that other universe. Hence, even if you don't like life here in this universe, you'll love life in a parallel one. [Reply] [Parent]

		Quantum Immortality & The Singularity posted on 08/02/2005 7:20 AM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	Now would someone like to talk about the Singularity along with Quantum Immortality? I feel that we're going to thrive peacefully with any Singularity that has yet to come. [Reply] [Parent]

		Quantum Immortality & The Singularity posted on 08/03/2005 12:38 AM by chomusclavus	[Top] [Show Index] [Reply to this post]
	I guess if no one has anything to say about Quantum Immortality in the Singularity, then I rest my case; we'll co-exist and thrive with a benevolent singularity, even though there may be hostile ones in alternate universes. [Reply] [Parent]