Comments on: Proteins remember the past to predict the future http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future Accelerating Intelligence Tue, 21 May 2013 08:00:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Vin http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-39344 Vin Mon, 08 Oct 2012 01:57:41 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-39344 This article seems like circular logic to me. Machines are efficient because of predictive power is first proposed. Then it is noted that biological machines are efficient. Therefore biological machines have clever predictive power. Therefore research funding must be diverted into looking for that. Now If i substitute 'tomato ketchup' for 'predictive power', the argument still works. Sounds dodgy. But I must admit I do like tomato ketchup. This article seems like circular logic to me. Machines are efficient because of predictive power is first proposed. Then it is noted that biological machines are efficient. Therefore biological machines have clever predictive power. Therefore research funding must be diverted into looking for that. Now If i substitute ‘tomato ketchup’ for ‘predictive power’, the argument still works. Sounds dodgy. But I must admit I do like tomato ketchup.

]]> By: Peter Kinnon http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38674 Peter Kinnon Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:21:59 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38674 "But in doing that you risk simply constructing a one-to-one map of the real world — not really a model at all, just a mass of data, many of which might be irrelevant to prediction." Absolutely! And this input filtering is exactly what is observed in living creatures as they increase in complexity. Particularly in our own species , where the feature is an essential component of our own special quality, which can be defined as imagination and is a correlate of consciousness. “But in doing that you risk simply constructing a one-to-one map of the real world — not really a model at all, just a mass of data, many of which might be irrelevant to prediction.”
Absolutely! And this input filtering is exactly what is observed in living creatures as they increase in complexity.
Particularly in our own species , where the feature is an essential component of our own special quality, which can be defined as imagination and is a correlate of consciousness.

]]> By: Peter Kinnon http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38670 Peter Kinnon Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:14:50 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38670 The idea that latent neutral genes could become expressed by environmental changes as well as the exaption of those previously active seems very plausible. In any case, punctuated evolution is entirely explicable in terms of the developments having to "wait" for particular diversifications to take place. The requirement for the oxygenation of the atmosphere to allow the emergence of large multicellular organisms being an example. By the way, we should not forget that "our discoveries" are better described as creations of nature too. Check free e-books on my website for more on this. The idea that latent neutral genes could become expressed by environmental changes as well as the exaption of those previously active seems very plausible.
In any case, punctuated evolution is entirely explicable in terms of the developments having to “wait” for particular diversifications to take place.
The requirement for the oxygenation of the atmosphere to allow the emergence of large multicellular organisms being an example.

By the way, we should not forget that “our discoveries” are better described as creations of nature too.
Check free e-books on my website for more on this.

]]> By: Marcos Marin http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38644 Marcos Marin Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:35:43 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38644 yes, MIT sucks! I waste no opportunity to bash it. Jeff Hawkins had to go elsewhere because with their (unjustified*) hubris refused to study the ONLY SAMPLE of intelligence limited humans can identify, i.e. the brain. I mean, how stupid is that?! that was decades ago, imagine where humans would be now... *if at least it was backed by reality, I'd have no complaint, I do it all the time =P BUT... there is nothing to it! They are simply Idiot savants with a capital I... yes, MIT sucks! I waste no opportunity to bash it. Jeff Hawkins had to go elsewhere because with their (unjustified*) hubris refused to study the ONLY SAMPLE of intelligence limited humans can identify, i.e. the brain. I mean, how stupid is that?! that was decades ago, imagine where humans would be now… *if at least it was backed by reality, I’d have no complaint, I do it all the time =P BUT… there is nothing to it! They are simply Idiot savants with a capital I…

]]> By: JC http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38639 JC Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:24:48 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38639 My genes are reading the news along with me? I thought so! Seriously though, I think you are on to something. If the organ sets appear fully formed then they must have been modeled in a replica of a nearly real world. Where do you think this 'game room' is in the organism? My genes are reading the news along with me? I thought so! Seriously though, I think you are on to something. If the organ sets appear fully formed then they must have been modeled in a replica of a nearly real world. Where do you think this ‘game room’ is in the organism?

]]> By: Jim Mooney http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38621 Jim Mooney Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:34:07 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38621 And of course, we now know genes can be expressed dynamically, rather than inter-generationally. Lamarck was on to something. I sometimes suspect that his exampled pillorying, and others, causes scientists with good ideas to "hide out." There is now evidence that MIT fudged the results of cold fusion experiments, leaving out anomalous heat generation. Although that may have been explainable data, and I have no opinion either way, it was wrong to leave it out. That's all ;') And of course, we now know genes can be expressed dynamically, rather than inter-generationally. Lamarck was on to something. I sometimes suspect that his exampled pillorying, and others, causes scientists with good ideas to “hide out.” There is now evidence that MIT fudged the results of cold fusion experiments, leaving out anomalous heat generation. Although that may have been explainable data, and I have no opinion either way, it was wrong to leave it out.

That’s all ;’)

]]> By: Jim Mooney http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38617 Jim Mooney Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:27:20 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38617 I forgot to add, if this occurs it has been going on for a long time, so unexpressed intra-genomic systems would be sitting in the genome right now. This might explain some of "junk" DNA. These systems would only be expressed when a species is under stress, since otherwise there is no need, and they would be counterproductive. Right now the human species is under a great deal of stress. Not so much due to physical conditions, which have improved (see the book "The Good Old Days - They Were Awful") but because the media focuses almost entirely on the bad. Then that bad is magnified by writers and commentators who even add lies to it. So if this idea has any validity expect mutations ;') I forgot to add, if this occurs it has been going on for a long time, so unexpressed intra-genomic systems would be sitting in the genome right now. This might explain some of “junk” DNA. These systems would only be expressed when a species is under stress, since otherwise there is no need, and they would be counterproductive.

Right now the human species is under a great deal of stress. Not so much due to physical conditions, which have improved (see the book “The Good Old Days – They Were Awful”) but because the media focuses almost entirely on the bad. Then that bad is magnified by writers and commentators who even add lies to it. So if this idea has any validity expect mutations ;’)

]]> By: Marcos Marin http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38615 Marcos Marin Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:25:49 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38615 Oh.. so now simulations of the brain must account for proteomics memory too, huh? mwahaha! How further away this pushes our new threshold, ChrisF? =) [clue: Log,2 of #proteic component of neurons (and astrocytes ;-))^1.5 Oh.. so now simulations of the brain must account for proteomics memory too, huh? mwahaha! How further away this pushes our new threshold, ChrisF? =) [clue: Log,2 of #proteic component of neurons (and astrocytes ;-))^1.5

]]> By: Jim Mooney http://www.kurzweilai.net/proteins-remember-the-past-to-predict-the-future/comment-page-1#comment-38587 Jim Mooney Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:17:12 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=166237#comment-38587 Since nature has already created many of our "discoveries" (like sonar), I've often thought punctuated evolution could be explained by intra-genomic gaming. That is, genes, in a way, must model the environment they are to apply to. So why not also "game" that environment dynamically inside the gene structure? "Winners" would prepare organ systems that are most likely to succeed in the real world. Some organ systems that appear suddenly in the fossil record are hard to explain. Their components have no survival value until the system as a whole appears, and would not tend to survive from generation to generation. This idea would explain how a whole and viable system could appear suddenly. Since nature has already created many of our “discoveries” (like sonar), I’ve often thought punctuated evolution could be explained by intra-genomic gaming. That is, genes, in a way, must model the environment they are to apply to. So why not also “game” that environment dynamically inside the gene structure? “Winners” would prepare organ systems that are most likely to succeed in the real world.

Some organ systems that appear suddenly in the fossil record are hard to explain. Their components have no survival value until the system as a whole appears, and would not tend to survive from generation to generation. This idea would explain how a whole and viable system could appear suddenly.

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