Comments on: Maxed-out or abundance? Paul Gilding, Peter Diamandis debate http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate Accelerating Intelligence Thu, 23 May 2013 15:54:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: Steve Mc http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate/comment-page-1#comment-26085 Steve Mc Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:31:29 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=151099#comment-26085 My take on these two speakers is that they are thinking in different time frames. Paul is agreeing with Peter but is saying that there will be a crisis of major proportions and that we should prepare for it. He is saying it is too late - this is going to happen. Looking around the world at the moment it does seem me that something is underway that we cannot control. We have a created a system that no single human organisation can control or even in entirety understand. We have simply been able to make adjustments in some levers to keep it going but that is coming to an end due to natural constraints. This is not only about carbon but also about many other systems upon which our civilisation depends. I think that before we can innovate our way out of the crisis we will need to accept the reality we are heading for. Only then will we have the ability to identify and support the ideas that Peter is hoping for. At the moment they simply are not recognisable against the background noise of our current reality. We are not atune to them. My take on these two speakers is that they are thinking in different time frames. Paul is agreeing with Peter but is saying that there will be a crisis of major proportions and that we should prepare for it. He is saying it is too late – this is going to happen. Looking around the world at the moment it does seem me that something is underway that we cannot control. We have a created a system that no single human organisation can control or even in entirety understand. We have simply been able to make adjustments in some levers to keep it going but that is coming to an end due to natural constraints. This is not only about carbon but also about many other systems upon which our civilisation depends. I think that before we can innovate our way out of the crisis we will need to accept the reality we are heading for. Only then will we have the ability to identify and support the ideas that Peter is hoping for. At the moment they simply are not recognisable against the background noise of our current reality. We are not atune to them.

]]> By: Manny Bassi http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate/comment-page-1#comment-15478 Manny Bassi Mon, 21 May 2012 14:32:27 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=151099#comment-15478 Are they not arguing different sides of the same argument? Both are insisting that the technologies and possibilities to solve the problems exist its just that corporations and government will not be the source of those solutions. I think what Paul Gilding is stressing is that we should anticipate a push back from the current bodies of power. While Peter Diamonds seems more optimistic of the power of ideas to overcome the status qua.. But even at the beginning of his own talk he starts with how mainstream media is dominated by a certain narrative. In the United States the national media is controlled by 4 to 6 corporations. It should be no surprise a certain narrative is pushed for motives other than informing society. I do not see one invalidating the other. The expanding boundaries of our technologies should give hope that we can solve these problems but we should not be blind to the fact that the status qua (corporations, governments, bureaucracy...) will do everything in their substantial power over society to ensure their own persistence and existence. Are they not arguing different sides of the same argument? Both are insisting that the technologies and possibilities to solve the problems exist its just that corporations and government will not be the source of those solutions. I think what Paul Gilding is stressing is that we should anticipate a push back from the current bodies of power. While Peter Diamonds seems more optimistic of the power of ideas to overcome the status qua.. But even at the beginning of his own talk he starts with how mainstream media is dominated by a certain narrative. In the United States the national media is controlled by 4 to 6 corporations. It should be no surprise a certain narrative is pushed for motives other than informing society.
I do not see one invalidating the other. The expanding boundaries of our technologies should give hope that we can solve these problems but we should not be blind to the fact that the status qua (corporations, governments, bureaucracy…) will do everything in their substantial power over society to ensure their own persistence and existence.

]]> By: Max Osterhaus http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate/comment-page-1#comment-15319 Max Osterhaus Fri, 18 May 2012 16:53:56 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=151099#comment-15319 I agree. Also, the panic can often be more dangerous than the perceived problem. As the philosopher Zizek relates, it was only the (false) rumor that toilet paper was being rationed that caused a shortage in toilet paper; No one actually believed there was a shortage, but they figured their fellow citizens would be fooled by the rumor and the gossip would be self-fulfilling. There are many parallel correlates. I agree. Also, the panic can often be more dangerous than the perceived problem. As the philosopher Zizek relates, it was only the (false) rumor that toilet paper was being rationed that caused a shortage in toilet paper; No one actually believed there was a shortage, but they figured their fellow citizens would be fooled by the rumor and the gossip would be self-fulfilling. There are many parallel correlates.

]]> By: tedhowardnz http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate/comment-page-1#comment-15149 tedhowardnz Mon, 14 May 2012 20:41:11 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=151099#comment-15149 I am with Blueflames and Peter to a substantial degree. The earth is far from "full", and the specific technologies we are using today are pushing hard at some boundaries in some places. We need to do some rapid change in technology, and neither governments nor corporations are good at rapid change (they are inherently conservative). It seems to me that the major problem we face is neither corporations nor governments (rather they are symptoms of the root cause). The root issue seems to be one of a common misunderstanding, that human value and monetary value are equivalent, and that by optimising the one we automatically optimise the other. Nothing could be further from the truth. Money is a market valuation measure, and as such includes a scarcity multiplier. The sort of abundance that the billions of poor need, the sort that includes food, sanitation, computers and communication, education, and transportation - this sort of abundance we can easily supply, but not in a way that returns "profit" (that ever expanding proxy for greed). I spend as little time as possible in the economic system, making enough money to survive on, and as much time as possible in the "voluntary sector" - Lions club, Fishing Club, Golf Club, nature conservation, regional water management, etc. Money is a tool, and it is a very dangerous tool, to be used with great care. Letting money become a master in any way, is a very dangerous thing. Our society is almost pathological in this attribute. Yet it is "only" a relatively small matter of understanding, of belief, and it can change, very rapidly. Minds can be freed. As Neo said - I didn't come here to tell you how it would end, only how it would begin. I am with Blueflames and Peter to a substantial degree.
The earth is far from “full”, and the specific technologies we are using today are pushing hard at some boundaries in some places.

We need to do some rapid change in technology, and neither governments nor corporations are good at rapid change (they are inherently conservative).

It seems to me that the major problem we face is neither corporations nor governments (rather they are symptoms of the root cause).
The root issue seems to be one of a common misunderstanding, that human value and monetary value are equivalent, and that by optimising the one we automatically optimise the other. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Money is a market valuation measure, and as such includes a scarcity multiplier.

The sort of abundance that the billions of poor need, the sort that includes food, sanitation, computers and communication, education, and transportation – this sort of abundance we can easily supply, but not in a way that returns “profit” (that ever expanding proxy for greed).

I spend as little time as possible in the economic system, making enough money to survive on, and as much time as possible in the “voluntary sector” – Lions club, Fishing Club, Golf Club, nature conservation, regional water management, etc.

Money is a tool, and it is a very dangerous tool, to be used with great care.
Letting money become a master in any way, is a very dangerous thing.
Our society is almost pathological in this attribute.
Yet it is “only” a relatively small matter of understanding, of belief, and it can change, very rapidly.
Minds can be freed.

As Neo said – I didn’t come here to tell you how it would end, only how it would begin.

]]> By: Blueflames http://www.kurzweilai.net/qa-from-the-ted-stage-paul-gilding-and-peter-diamandis-debate/comment-page-1#comment-15110 Blueflames Sun, 13 May 2012 14:55:20 +0000 http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=151099#comment-15110 Unfortunately people like Paul Gilding are the reason why people are in panic mode about the oil and gas industry. If he only paid attention to Moores law and the growth of technology we are actually moving away from the oil and gas on our own. This impending doom scenario he peddles to people is only a scare tactic used by government or corporations to institute more control and regulation. I am with Peter on this one. We can't leave it up to big business or corporations to solve our issues. The solutions will be outside of their scope, as well as outside of their grasps. Unfortunately people like Paul Gilding are the reason why people are in panic mode about the oil and gas industry. If he only paid attention to Moores law and the growth of technology we are actually moving away from the oil and gas on our own. This impending doom scenario he peddles to people is only a scare tactic used by government or corporations to institute more control and regulation.

I am with Peter on this one. We can’t leave it up to big business or corporations to solve our issues. The solutions will be outside of their scope, as well as outside of their grasps.

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