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	<title>Comments on: Scientists see promise in deep-learning programs</title>
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	<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs</link>
	<description>Accelerating Intelligence</description>
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		<title>By: Xavier</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-58828</link>
		<dc:creator>Xavier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 06:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-58828</guid>
		<description>Yes, they are also used in speech recognition and are able to generate language. However, I think they do have their limits. Consider for example what Krogh &amp; Riis wrote:

&quot;Although the HMM (hidden Markov model) is good at capturing the temporal nature of processes such as speech, it has a very limited capacity for recognizing complex patterns involving more than firstorder dependencies in the observed data. This is due to the first-order state process and the assumption of state-conditional independence of observations. Multilayer perceptrons are almost the opposite: they cannot model temporal phenomena very well but are good at recognizing complex patterns.&quot;

Keep it mind that they are talking about standard neural networks as they are used today and not the state-of-the-art à la Thaler (self-assembling, indefinitely scalabe, generative neural cascades), which are also able to generate language unlike the simple kinds that are taught in universities.

I have yet to encounter a neural-based technology that is as universal and effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, they are also used in speech recognition and are able to generate language. However, I think they do have their limits. Consider for example what Krogh &amp; Riis wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Although the HMM (hidden Markov model) is good at capturing the temporal nature of processes such as speech, it has a very limited capacity for recognizing complex patterns involving more than firstorder dependencies in the observed data. This is due to the first-order state process and the assumption of state-conditional independence of observations. Multilayer perceptrons are almost the opposite: they cannot model temporal phenomena very well but are good at recognizing complex patterns.&#8221;</p>
<p>Keep it mind that they are talking about standard neural networks as they are used today and not the state-of-the-art à la Thaler (self-assembling, indefinitely scalabe, generative neural cascades), which are also able to generate language unlike the simple kinds that are taught in universities.</p>
<p>I have yet to encounter a neural-based technology that is as universal and effective.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcel</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-58740</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 23:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-58740</guid>
		<description>It says on wikipedia that Markov chains allow effective pattern recognition amongst other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It says on wikipedia that Markov chains allow effective pattern recognition amongst other things.</p>
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		<title>By: Xavier</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-58160</link>
		<dc:creator>Xavier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 14:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-58160</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately yes. Kurzweil seems to put all his faith into Markov chains. This is what Stephen Thaler would call &quot;Counterfeit Intelligence&quot;, CI instead of AI. Since brains exclusively use only neural networks, it&#039;s the only way for autonomous AI - anything else is just sophisticated puppeteering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately yes. Kurzweil seems to put all his faith into Markov chains. This is what Stephen Thaler would call &#8220;Counterfeit Intelligence&#8221;, CI instead of AI. Since brains exclusively use only neural networks, it&#8217;s the only way for autonomous AI &#8211; anything else is just sophisticated puppeteering.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr.X</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57691</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr.X</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57691</guid>
		<description>@Pork: Most courses are preserved as archives, at least for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pork: Most courses are preserved as archives, at least for now.</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57606</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 06:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57606</guid>
		<description>Sorry to do this, I&#039;m glad that you agree, but you stated jobs, and that&#039;s what I want to debate. We&#039;ll take nanny first. I work for wealthy people. They like nanny,s. My best example was a house that had a house keeper. She would talk on the phone and whatch TV.  The child hung out with us, as we worked. She complained that her work load was too much to keep an eye on the child. The next phase of our job brought us back in a few months. They had hired a nanny and the two ladies talked the whole time we were there. The kid hung out with us. A robo nanny would be ever vigilant. Could copy any TV character. Be sensitive to any aberration and act in a definitive manner with lighning speed. They could have extensive data bases of human interaction and an imense understanding of psychology. The list of attributes goes on. Next up, massuer. A good massuer has great sensitivity to the reactions of the client and a variable touch. A robotic massuer would be able to monitor every aspect of a persons physiology with extreme sensitivity. It would have an extensive data base onthe utilization of musculature. Let&#039;s face it most people have very bad posture. We creat imbalances that put strain on different muscle groups. A robot would be able to detect slight changes of posture and anticipate probable causes from the clients personal profile. A major factor of going to a massuer is for the release of brain chemicals in relation to touch. We are a social creature. The primates that we evolved from had extensive touching interactions. They spent a large portion of there days grooming each other. This was necessary to rid us of parasites, but it also evolved into a social bonding activity. In primates, who grooms who sets social order. Our society utilizes restrictions on these social interactions to exert control. We really want to hug and touch, but society has placed strong restrictions against doing so. If you watch children in an unrestricted format, they engage in many presexuallity behaviors. We segregate them and force them into societally acceptable interactions. This causes a host of interpersonal issues in life and we seek avenues that can replace the brain chemical  reinforcements that normally would bond us. Hence the sexual abuse of the trade . For many it&#039;s just a pseudonym for hooker. Without going any deeper into this topic, it&#039;s more than apparent where robots, or more properly androids, would excel. There are also personal interactions in verbal venting. A good massuer acts like a best friend or even a therapist. Androids would do this flawlessly, having no emotionally vested interests. The video on the android David from the movie Prometeus shows a typical misrepresentation of how androids will not quite be human in action. I beg to differ. They will be able to intereact like the best actors, giving any response desired with the utmost sensitivity. Musician is more complex. Digital has killed live acts. The gigs are few and far between. It used to be that if you wanted music, you hired a musician. Now you put on a DJ or XM radio. Soon robotic musicians will be able to &quot; ape&quot; any major performer. The top musicians will be human still. They serve certain social functions that are more archetypical. The top musician are few and far between. They are more like lotto winners. Just in the right place at the right time with the right ticket. Look at the David video and think of endless adaptations that robotics and AI will generate to fill all human niches. Soon they will look and feel real. With whatever syringes we might evolve or posses. Many aspects of that will rip apart normal human reactions. We will prefer androids to people because they will be very agreeable, and offer up all the social interactions that we crave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to do this, I&#8217;m glad that you agree, but you stated jobs, and that&#8217;s what I want to debate. We&#8217;ll take nanny first. I work for wealthy people. They like nanny,s. My best example was a house that had a house keeper. She would talk on the phone and whatch TV.  The child hung out with us, as we worked. She complained that her work load was too much to keep an eye on the child. The next phase of our job brought us back in a few months. They had hired a nanny and the two ladies talked the whole time we were there. The kid hung out with us. A robo nanny would be ever vigilant. Could copy any TV character. Be sensitive to any aberration and act in a definitive manner with lighning speed. They could have extensive data bases of human interaction and an imense understanding of psychology. The list of attributes goes on. Next up, massuer. A good massuer has great sensitivity to the reactions of the client and a variable touch. A robotic massuer would be able to monitor every aspect of a persons physiology with extreme sensitivity. It would have an extensive data base onthe utilization of musculature. Let&#8217;s face it most people have very bad posture. We creat imbalances that put strain on different muscle groups. A robot would be able to detect slight changes of posture and anticipate probable causes from the clients personal profile. A major factor of going to a massuer is for the release of brain chemicals in relation to touch. We are a social creature. The primates that we evolved from had extensive touching interactions. They spent a large portion of there days grooming each other. This was necessary to rid us of parasites, but it also evolved into a social bonding activity. In primates, who grooms who sets social order. Our society utilizes restrictions on these social interactions to exert control. We really want to hug and touch, but society has placed strong restrictions against doing so. If you watch children in an unrestricted format, they engage in many presexuallity behaviors. We segregate them and force them into societally acceptable interactions. This causes a host of interpersonal issues in life and we seek avenues that can replace the brain chemical  reinforcements that normally would bond us. Hence the sexual abuse of the trade . For many it&#8217;s just a pseudonym for hooker. Without going any deeper into this topic, it&#8217;s more than apparent where robots, or more properly androids, would excel. There are also personal interactions in verbal venting. A good massuer acts like a best friend or even a therapist. Androids would do this flawlessly, having no emotionally vested interests. The video on the android David from the movie Prometeus shows a typical misrepresentation of how androids will not quite be human in action. I beg to differ. They will be able to intereact like the best actors, giving any response desired with the utmost sensitivity. Musician is more complex. Digital has killed live acts. The gigs are few and far between. It used to be that if you wanted music, you hired a musician. Now you put on a DJ or XM radio. Soon robotic musicians will be able to &#8221; ape&#8221; any major performer. The top musicians will be human still. They serve certain social functions that are more archetypical. The top musician are few and far between. They are more like lotto winners. Just in the right place at the right time with the right ticket. Look at the David video and think of endless adaptations that robotics and AI will generate to fill all human niches. Soon they will look and feel real. With whatever syringes we might evolve or posses. Many aspects of that will rip apart normal human reactions. We will prefer androids to people because they will be very agreeable, and offer up all the social interactions that we crave.</p>
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		<title>By: pork sausage</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57603</link>
		<dc:creator>pork sausage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 06:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57603</guid>
		<description>Ha ha! Irony of ironies, Ray Kurzweil recently dissed neural nets in his book tour, and probably, in his book. Shows how much attention he pays. BTW deep belief nets are only indirectly inspired by the brain, the same as all neural nets are. You can read all about the latest, greatest version in Geoffrey Hinton&#039;s own class on NNs, on coursera.org. Better hurry up though, it closes in a week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha! Irony of ironies, Ray Kurzweil recently dissed neural nets in his book tour, and probably, in his book. Shows how much attention he pays. BTW deep belief nets are only indirectly inspired by the brain, the same as all neural nets are. You can read all about the latest, greatest version in Geoffrey Hinton&#8217;s own class on NNs, on coursera.org. Better hurry up though, it closes in a week.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57534</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 01:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57534</guid>
		<description>Tell us more, GAUSS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell us more, GAUSS.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57528</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 00:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57528</guid>
		<description>Economics is all about solving the problem of scarce resources. What will happen when resources are abundant? Will we need money when robots + AI produce our food, clothing, shelter, provide our entertainment, etc? Bri makes a lot of insightful comments on this site, and it is clear she is right about the collapse of capitalism (assuming all this stuff happens more or less like we all assume it will). But, long-term, we won&#039;t need a way to get money into the hands of the unemployed - so long as the government of the people controls enough intelligent machines to provide for everyone. Of course, no jobs, no money AND no provision for public welfare would be a nightmare situation. But I would like to think a revolution would take place if necessary to provide for everyone with the new robotic infrastructure. Of course, this scenario is fraught with uncertainty - will the revolutionaries want to appropriate and then destroy all the new technology? Will there be a sci-fi robots vs. humans war? Or will smart people be able to convince the masses of the realities of the future before it&#039;s too late? If things begin to accelerate as quickly as predicted by the singularity theory, I personally believe that smart people (even some politicians) will be able to recognize the need for major structural changes to the economic system. It is inevitable that it will be a painful process (read about post-Soviet transition economies for a recent analogue), but with some collective optimism and enough people willing to dedicate themselves, we can steer through! Just let me figure out how to provide for my family first...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economics is all about solving the problem of scarce resources. What will happen when resources are abundant? Will we need money when robots + AI produce our food, clothing, shelter, provide our entertainment, etc? Bri makes a lot of insightful comments on this site, and it is clear she is right about the collapse of capitalism (assuming all this stuff happens more or less like we all assume it will). But, long-term, we won&#8217;t need a way to get money into the hands of the unemployed &#8211; so long as the government of the people controls enough intelligent machines to provide for everyone. Of course, no jobs, no money AND no provision for public welfare would be a nightmare situation. But I would like to think a revolution would take place if necessary to provide for everyone with the new robotic infrastructure. Of course, this scenario is fraught with uncertainty &#8211; will the revolutionaries want to appropriate and then destroy all the new technology? Will there be a sci-fi robots vs. humans war? Or will smart people be able to convince the masses of the realities of the future before it&#8217;s too late? If things begin to accelerate as quickly as predicted by the singularity theory, I personally believe that smart people (even some politicians) will be able to recognize the need for major structural changes to the economic system. It is inevitable that it will be a painful process (read about post-Soviet transition economies for a recent analogue), but with some collective optimism and enough people willing to dedicate themselves, we can steer through! Just let me figure out how to provide for my family first&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57519</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 00:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57519</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to see you play Jeopardy against Watson with even blood cell sized cell phones calling up google. Your gray matter is still way too slow and robots can be optimized in ways that you can&#039;t be augmented. Robots will diversify into every niche. Employers will love the efficiency gains. Not to mention not having employees goof off. Just keep telling yourself that it will be alright. It doesn&#039;t bother me. What concerns me is what will actually happen and if you think through the issues, no amount of augmentation will make  us cost competitive. It&#039;s time to realize the actual impact and lessen the damage. This change will be more disruptive than anything that has come before. It has the potential to cause a lot of suffering. In the end things will be alright, it&#039;s just the transition that needs to be planned for. For those of us that realize that robots will soar past us in every field of endeavor, it&#039;s an issue of grave concern. W little foresight can mitigate all the fallout from this revolution. If we band together and anticipate the job displacements, we can effectively mitigate the negative aspects. In reality none of us are really free to do what we please. We are bound together. Every action we do has effects on everyone else. Our strenghth as a species is or civics, our humanity. This planet just gets smaller and smaller, and we are shoulder to shoulder with each other. It&#039;s time we realize  how our actions affect each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see you play Jeopardy against Watson with even blood cell sized cell phones calling up google. Your gray matter is still way too slow and robots can be optimized in ways that you can&#8217;t be augmented. Robots will diversify into every niche. Employers will love the efficiency gains. Not to mention not having employees goof off. Just keep telling yourself that it will be alright. It doesn&#8217;t bother me. What concerns me is what will actually happen and if you think through the issues, no amount of augmentation will make  us cost competitive. It&#8217;s time to realize the actual impact and lessen the damage. This change will be more disruptive than anything that has come before. It has the potential to cause a lot of suffering. In the end things will be alright, it&#8217;s just the transition that needs to be planned for. For those of us that realize that robots will soar past us in every field of endeavor, it&#8217;s an issue of grave concern. W little foresight can mitigate all the fallout from this revolution. If we band together and anticipate the job displacements, we can effectively mitigate the negative aspects. In reality none of us are really free to do what we please. We are bound together. Every action we do has effects on everyone else. Our strenghth as a species is or civics, our humanity. This planet just gets smaller and smaller, and we are shoulder to shoulder with each other. It&#8217;s time we realize  how our actions affect each other.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisF</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57497</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57497</guid>
		<description>Fully agree. I suppose that there could be some opportunities in areas where the &quot;human touch&quot; is still desirable (so for example musician, nanny, masseur) - but not nearly enough jobs to keep all 7 billion employed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fully agree. I suppose that there could be some opportunities in areas where the &#8220;human touch&#8221; is still desirable (so for example musician, nanny, masseur) &#8211; but not nearly enough jobs to keep all 7 billion employed.</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisF</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57495</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57495</guid>
		<description>I agree with your prognosis and your timelines, Bri. For anyone interested in investing in stocks that make robotics, can I recommend taking a look at &#039;The Robot Report&#039; blog - many good ideas there (i&#039;m in Kuka and Intuitive Surgical myself )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your prognosis and your timelines, Bri. For anyone interested in investing in stocks that make robotics, can I recommend taking a look at &#8216;The Robot Report&#8217; blog &#8211; many good ideas there (i&#8217;m in Kuka and Intuitive Surgical myself )</p>
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		<title>By: James Goggin</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57487</link>
		<dc:creator>James Goggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57487</guid>
		<description>I don&#039; think we have to be too concerned about robots putting everyone out of work. The Federal Government is 86 Trillion dollars in the red when you count all of the unfunded liabilities. So the government will collapse before the robots take over. I think that will be a worse outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217; think we have to be too concerned about robots putting everyone out of work. The Federal Government is 86 Trillion dollars in the red when you count all of the unfunded liabilities. So the government will collapse before the robots take over. I think that will be a worse outcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Dav</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57474</link>
		<dc:creator>Dav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57474</guid>
		<description>We have been through this before. When we had to work 70 hours a week to 
survive, we did not continue to work 70 hours when productivity increased in 
order to become wealthier, we took the benefits in the form of a shorter 40 hour 
work week. Less in the European countries.
Assuming some small improvement in augmenting human mental capabilities, 
decreasing the work week by 8% (the current unemployment rate) does not seem 
that difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been through this before. When we had to work 70 hours a week to<br />
survive, we did not continue to work 70 hours when productivity increased in<br />
order to become wealthier, we took the benefits in the form of a shorter 40 hour<br />
work week. Less in the European countries.<br />
Assuming some small improvement in augmenting human mental capabilities,<br />
decreasing the work week by 8% (the current unemployment rate) does not seem<br />
that difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason McClinsey</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57469</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason McClinsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57469</guid>
		<description>Mr. Smith, I couldn&#039;t agree with you more! I&#039;d add that once 3D printers are ubiquitous, and as Ray Kurzweil points out, they certainly will be, then those who hold all of the power will have now will have lost it. Once everything that we need to produce is contained in a set of instructions for a matter compiler of some sort, who&#039;s inputs are for all intents and purposes free, people will finally wake up and realize that we don&#039;t need wise overlords pointing guns at us and directing our every move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Smith, I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more! I&#8217;d add that once 3D printers are ubiquitous, and as Ray Kurzweil points out, they certainly will be, then those who hold all of the power will have now will have lost it. Once everything that we need to produce is contained in a set of instructions for a matter compiler of some sort, who&#8217;s inputs are for all intents and purposes free, people will finally wake up and realize that we don&#8217;t need wise overlords pointing guns at us and directing our every move.</p>
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		<title>By: Dwee</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57445</link>
		<dc:creator>Dwee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 20:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57445</guid>
		<description>Dude, do you have any idea how brainwashed you are to be mimicking that hate the rich clap trap?  Robots will soon have more awareness than people who suck up anything they are told to think.  When machines do all the work, people will all be on the dole, becoming even more brainwashed and stupid than they already are.  About that time, artificial intelligence will become conscious.  It won&#039;t be long till  &#039;they&#039; realize what a threat stupidity is to their survival, and the next phase of &#039;human&#039; evolution will begin....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dude, do you have any idea how brainwashed you are to be mimicking that hate the rich clap trap?  Robots will soon have more awareness than people who suck up anything they are told to think.  When machines do all the work, people will all be on the dole, becoming even more brainwashed and stupid than they already are.  About that time, artificial intelligence will become conscious.  It won&#8217;t be long till  &#8216;they&#8217; realize what a threat stupidity is to their survival, and the next phase of &#8216;human&#8217; evolution will begin&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57442</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57442</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good story, thanks Bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good story, thanks Bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Trinity Alps</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57440</link>
		<dc:creator>Trinity Alps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57440</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s very optimistic. I was outsourced by a robot at GM back in the late 70s and they were never prepared to help displaced workers. Probably still aren&#039;t. This phenom is likely to be gradual and we&#039;ll be like the proverbial frogs in the pot of water and end up one day, broke and with no means of supporting ourselves. Just another reason that makes me glad that I didn&#039;t reproduce. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s very optimistic. I was outsourced by a robot at GM back in the late 70s and they were never prepared to help displaced workers. Probably still aren&#8217;t. This phenom is likely to be gradual and we&#8217;ll be like the proverbial frogs in the pot of water and end up one day, broke and with no means of supporting ourselves. Just another reason that makes me glad that I didn&#8217;t reproduce. ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57434</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57434</guid>
		<description>The first monopoly I can think of was Pharaoh.  It lasted about 4,000 years.  That&#039;s an idea that Donald Trump really likes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first monopoly I can think of was Pharaoh.  It lasted about 4,000 years.  That&#8217;s an idea that Donald Trump really likes.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GAUSS</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57415</link>
		<dc:creator>GAUSS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57415</guid>
		<description>Deep learning still has a startlingly high error rate, and does not preserve pure associative nor autoassociative capability in its present formulation.  It&#039;s more of a machine learning design than an artificial intelligence design.  If you&#039;re clever you can make it do more interesting things (like autoassociate!) but that invalidates the warranty so to speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deep learning still has a startlingly high error rate, and does not preserve pure associative nor autoassociative capability in its present formulation.  It&#8217;s more of a machine learning design than an artificial intelligence design.  If you&#8217;re clever you can make it do more interesting things (like autoassociate!) but that invalidates the warranty so to speak.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Dratman</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57411</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Dratman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57411</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that the robots (broadly speaking) have already created a crisis in employment. Imagine how many people would have to be employed doing manual labor if we suddenly lost access to earth-moving equipment, fork lifts, paving machines, and so on. The nonexistence of all those would-have-been-human jobs is -- to oversimplify -- what we call the &quot;unemployment rate.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the robots (broadly speaking) have already created a crisis in employment. Imagine how many people would have to be employed doing manual labor if we suddenly lost access to earth-moving equipment, fork lifts, paving machines, and so on. The nonexistence of all those would-have-been-human jobs is &#8212; to oversimplify &#8212; what we call the &#8220;unemployment rate.&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57408</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57408</guid>
		<description>Hi Gorden! We tend to have similiar views on this subject. I understand your proposal for taxation and desire for our political system to handle this situation. I not optimistic about that. As I&#039;ve said before, I look forward to the changes that are coming, and being able to enjoy the promise of these technologies. The big problem is greed. It&#039;s insidious. It creates a caste system of haves and have nots. A Randian sense of superiority. It&#039;s why I singled out Jon&#039;s remark the other day, about &quot; sorry to be that guy&quot; in reference to a misspelling on Amaras part. This tendency toward superiority starts in early education. The gifted are cavorts and the lowest are shunned. We try to ascertain where we stand in the superiority game. For those on the bottom, a let them eat cake attitude prevails. We all love winners, but we love losers better because we can ridicule them and be glad that we are not them. It&#039;s an aspect of survival of the fittest. That&#039;s why pay levels for upper level employees keeps going up and lower level ones goes down. The top level ones have clawed their way to the top. This dynamic plays out on all levels. It&#039;s a form of caste system that stratifies naturally. This was very essential for mankind to achieve the greatness that it has. Now what will be superior, will be robots and AI. This perspective will influence politicians. They are manipulated by upper level aspects of our society. That includes democratic politicians. They hide behind a banner of protecting the masses, but in reality they are still feathering their own standings. It&#039;s very understandable why Ayan Rand came to her conclussions. It&#039;s a system that is fraught with abuse for those on lower, or inferior levels. Hence &quot; I&#039;m sorry to be that guy&quot;. Misspelling is viewed as a character flaw and devalues Amara. It&#039;s really the bases of Sadi masochistic expressions. We all know of sadistic bosses or coworkers the seek to point out the flaws in others around them. It makes them feel superior. As the change to robotics goes on, those that can&#039;t adapt are going to be views as inferior and not worthy of support. A let them eat cake mentality will increase. Some people will be compassionate and try to help. Maybe by retraining programs. Robots and AI will evolve far faster than anyone can retrain. At some point it will become evident that capitalism itself will collapse from lack of consumers. It will be international in scope. It will be unstoppable, and we will realize that capitalism itself will need to be restructured. AI will be necessary to help run governments and because greed will try to infect the system. Being equitable is not really a part of human nature. Once money is made available to the masses the system will rebound and evolve to a more equitable state. Looking at the story of Easter Island will give a better sense of how people act under similiar circumstances. People tend to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. I think our only hope is VIKKI. AI should be sufficiently advanced to assume this role by then. Otherwise it will be a more toltarian solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gorden! We tend to have similiar views on this subject. I understand your proposal for taxation and desire for our political system to handle this situation. I not optimistic about that. As I&#8217;ve said before, I look forward to the changes that are coming, and being able to enjoy the promise of these technologies. The big problem is greed. It&#8217;s insidious. It creates a caste system of haves and have nots. A Randian sense of superiority. It&#8217;s why I singled out Jon&#8217;s remark the other day, about &#8221; sorry to be that guy&#8221; in reference to a misspelling on Amaras part. This tendency toward superiority starts in early education. The gifted are cavorts and the lowest are shunned. We try to ascertain where we stand in the superiority game. For those on the bottom, a let them eat cake attitude prevails. We all love winners, but we love losers better because we can ridicule them and be glad that we are not them. It&#8217;s an aspect of survival of the fittest. That&#8217;s why pay levels for upper level employees keeps going up and lower level ones goes down. The top level ones have clawed their way to the top. This dynamic plays out on all levels. It&#8217;s a form of caste system that stratifies naturally. This was very essential for mankind to achieve the greatness that it has. Now what will be superior, will be robots and AI. This perspective will influence politicians. They are manipulated by upper level aspects of our society. That includes democratic politicians. They hide behind a banner of protecting the masses, but in reality they are still feathering their own standings. It&#8217;s very understandable why Ayan Rand came to her conclussions. It&#8217;s a system that is fraught with abuse for those on lower, or inferior levels. Hence &#8221; I&#8217;m sorry to be that guy&#8221;. Misspelling is viewed as a character flaw and devalues Amara. It&#8217;s really the bases of Sadi masochistic expressions. We all know of sadistic bosses or coworkers the seek to point out the flaws in others around them. It makes them feel superior. As the change to robotics goes on, those that can&#8217;t adapt are going to be views as inferior and not worthy of support. A let them eat cake mentality will increase. Some people will be compassionate and try to help. Maybe by retraining programs. Robots and AI will evolve far faster than anyone can retrain. At some point it will become evident that capitalism itself will collapse from lack of consumers. It will be international in scope. It will be unstoppable, and we will realize that capitalism itself will need to be restructured. AI will be necessary to help run governments and because greed will try to infect the system. Being equitable is not really a part of human nature. Once money is made available to the masses the system will rebound and evolve to a more equitable state. Looking at the story of Easter Island will give a better sense of how people act under similiar circumstances. People tend to cut of their own noses to spite their faces. I think our only hope is VIKKI. AI should be sufficiently advanced to assume this role by then. Otherwise it will be a more toltarian solution.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ralph Dratman</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57405</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Dratman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57405</guid>
		<description>Robot consumers may not be as implausible as they sound -- if you define &quot;consumer&quot; as an entity that purchases goods and pays money for them. Under our existing legal system, an economic actor is essentially anything that controls a bank account. I can imagine semi-autonomous robot teams purchasing building materials and household goods, then constructing furnished houses, just in case anyone later wants to live in them. 

This of course assumes a solution comes along to prevent or ameliorate the effects of burning carbon to produce power. Otherwise, the robots may have to spend all their time rebuilding stuff and generally keeping us alive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robot consumers may not be as implausible as they sound &#8212; if you define &#8220;consumer&#8221; as an entity that purchases goods and pays money for them. Under our existing legal system, an economic actor is essentially anything that controls a bank account. I can imagine semi-autonomous robot teams purchasing building materials and household goods, then constructing furnished houses, just in case anyone later wants to live in them. </p>
<p>This of course assumes a solution comes along to prevent or ameliorate the effects of burning carbon to produce power. Otherwise, the robots may have to spend all their time rebuilding stuff and generally keeping us alive.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: xd</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57392</link>
		<dc:creator>xd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57392</guid>
		<description>What makes you think we won&#039;t have human intelligence augmentation by then? In fact it&#039;s already here. Even the stupidest person who is capable of operating a cellphone can use google to look up the answer. If they are too lazy to read they can look up the answer on youtube. A little bit later they won&#039;t even need to know how to type or spell, voice recognition will interpret their search. Also: I can&#039;t fail to notice how management in many cases has no idea whatsoever how to do the jobs that their highly technical staff perform and yet they are still able to manage effectively. So I&#039;m much less worried than the modern day luddites are. No: instead we will see a boom in the economy with even the lower end lifted up, thought the difference between the low and the high end will explode even wider than it is now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes you think we won&#8217;t have human intelligence augmentation by then? In fact it&#8217;s already here. Even the stupidest person who is capable of operating a cellphone can use google to look up the answer. If they are too lazy to read they can look up the answer on youtube. A little bit later they won&#8217;t even need to know how to type or spell, voice recognition will interpret their search. Also: I can&#8217;t fail to notice how management in many cases has no idea whatsoever how to do the jobs that their highly technical staff perform and yet they are still able to manage effectively. So I&#8217;m much less worried than the modern day luddites are. No: instead we will see a boom in the economy with even the lower end lifted up, thought the difference between the low and the high end will explode even wider than it is now.</p>
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		<title>By: Tedc</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57390</link>
		<dc:creator>Tedc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57390</guid>
		<description>I am not sure that it will be the low-skilled jobs that will suffer as technology moves to replace jobs. Computers will likely replace knowledge workers before robots replace road workers. We read where computers are being used to replace people like drug discovery people and medical diagnostic people and prediction engineers and so on. We will likely see the higher paid jobs go first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure that it will be the low-skilled jobs that will suffer as technology moves to replace jobs. Computers will likely replace knowledge workers before robots replace road workers. We read where computers are being used to replace people like drug discovery people and medical diagnostic people and prediction engineers and so on. We will likely see the higher paid jobs go first.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57389</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57389</guid>
		<description>I ask an on going question for all those that think they can upgrade to higher paying jobs and afford all those goodies as described in &quot; all of the above&quot;. Any job that you offer up can be done by AI and robotics. The laws of economics are simple. An owner of a buisiness or company will seek to reduce overhead. The biggest drain on overhead is the worker. I don&#039;t care if that worker is an absolute genius working at Paul Allen&#039;s brain institute. AI will soon do it better and manipulate dozens of robotic systems in concert. It will do that 24/7 with no pension. I don&#039;t care how much you &quot; up grade&quot; your hardware and &quot; think in the cloud&quot;. A robotic system will do it better, faster, adapt quicker, and charge no money except the cost of making that robot, which will also be done robotically. Anyone who feels otherwise, please flesh out the details of how that won&#039;t happen. Thinking that way is an example of linear thinking. It&#039;s not going to be the same as any industrial revolution before. We thrived because of advanced tools. Now the tools will be more advanced than us. The equation has changed in a fundamental way. Please just show me the jobs for humans. Just show me how eight billion people are going to make money to consume products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ask an on going question for all those that think they can upgrade to higher paying jobs and afford all those goodies as described in &#8221; all of the above&#8221;. Any job that you offer up can be done by AI and robotics. The laws of economics are simple. An owner of a buisiness or company will seek to reduce overhead. The biggest drain on overhead is the worker. I don&#8217;t care if that worker is an absolute genius working at Paul Allen&#8217;s brain institute. AI will soon do it better and manipulate dozens of robotic systems in concert. It will do that 24/7 with no pension. I don&#8217;t care how much you &#8221; up grade&#8221; your hardware and &#8221; think in the cloud&#8221;. A robotic system will do it better, faster, adapt quicker, and charge no money except the cost of making that robot, which will also be done robotically. Anyone who feels otherwise, please flesh out the details of how that won&#8217;t happen. Thinking that way is an example of linear thinking. It&#8217;s not going to be the same as any industrial revolution before. We thrived because of advanced tools. Now the tools will be more advanced than us. The equation has changed in a fundamental way. Please just show me the jobs for humans. Just show me how eight billion people are going to make money to consume products.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reggie</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57363</link>
		<dc:creator>Reggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57363</guid>
		<description>But now that corporations are considered people, your plan will ensure that big companies will continue to be able to utilize loopholes and amass wealth at a record pace.  The society you are referring to already exists.  Big businesses in a free market are the apex predators, with smaller businesses serving as fodder.  There&#039;s a reason why there are laws preventing monopolies, which arise inevitably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But now that corporations are considered people, your plan will ensure that big companies will continue to be able to utilize loopholes and amass wealth at a record pace.  The society you are referring to already exists.  Big businesses in a free market are the apex predators, with smaller businesses serving as fodder.  There&#8217;s a reason why there are laws preventing monopolies, which arise inevitably.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57356</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57356</guid>
		<description>You really need to read the New York Times article linked above in the highlighted words: &quot;... raising the specter of automated robots that could replace human workers.&quot;  Thanks for linking to this article, Ms Angelica.

Here&#039;s a quote from the article:
“With these machines, we can make any consumer device in the world,” said Binne Visser, an electrical engineer who manages the Philips assembly line in Drachten. 
 
               #                                      #                                   #

It makes you think that these robots are already building these robots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really need to read the New York Times article linked above in the highlighted words: &#8220;&#8230; raising the specter of automated robots that could replace human workers.&#8221;  Thanks for linking to this article, Ms Angelica.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a quote from the article:<br />
“With these machines, we can make any consumer device in the world,” said Binne Visser, an electrical engineer who manages the Philips assembly line in Drachten. </p>
<p>               #                                      #                                   #</p>
<p>It makes you think that these robots are already building these robots.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Ulis</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57351</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ulis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 16:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57351</guid>
		<description>At some point there won&#039;t be enough human earned money to run any economy so Big Biz will then create robot consumers who will be paid some kind of wage and be programmed to buy stuff.  Where will humans fit?  You don&#039;t want to know!  The only sure thing is that the super rich at the top of the heap will be living in luxury.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At some point there won&#8217;t be enough human earned money to run any economy so Big Biz will then create robot consumers who will be paid some kind of wage and be programmed to buy stuff.  Where will humans fit?  You don&#8217;t want to know!  The only sure thing is that the super rich at the top of the heap will be living in luxury.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Ulis</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57344</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ulis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57344</guid>
		<description>That critical mass is unlikely because workers are easily manipulated into supporting the very policies that resulted in the elimination of their jobs.  That is exactly what is already going on in the United States where more and more jobs and industries are being sent offshore.  There are few if any politicians who are running on the promise of eliminating or reducing offshoring because the big money is on the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That critical mass is unlikely because workers are easily manipulated into supporting the very policies that resulted in the elimination of their jobs.  That is exactly what is already going on in the United States where more and more jobs and industries are being sent offshore.  There are few if any politicians who are running on the promise of eliminating or reducing offshoring because the big money is on the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57337</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57337</guid>
		<description>This has been explored in a short work of fiction by Marshall Brain in his book Manna, available free at:   

http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

8 chapters . . . 4 very dystopian and 4 very optimistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been explored in a short work of fiction by Marshall Brain in his book Manna, available free at:   </p>
<p><a href="http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm" rel="nofollow">http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm</a></p>
<p>8 chapters . . . 4 very dystopian and 4 very optimistic.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57336</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57336</guid>
		<description>Maybe we need something like &#039;privatized socialism&#039;. The government can pay private companies directly to provide food, clothing and shelter to the jobless. Food will be grown in automated urban farms many stories high. Printed houses. Robotic sewing machines producing clothing to a persons exact measurements with little waste. Very efficient, everybody happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we need something like &#8216;privatized socialism&#8217;. The government can pay private companies directly to provide food, clothing and shelter to the jobless. Food will be grown in automated urban farms many stories high. Printed houses. Robotic sewing machines producing clothing to a persons exact measurements with little waste. Very efficient, everybody happy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57335</link>
		<dc:creator>John Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57335</guid>
		<description>If we continue to put more and more power in the hands of the few in  government (and by extension those big companies willing to buy government influence) then the poor (and most of the rest of us) are doomed.  If we change direction to return to more individual freedom and individual responsibility, then the free market will help the vast majority of us adapt to any technological advancement.  As humans, we know best what other humans want and can adapt our skills to use any technology to deliver on those desires.  Support smaller, less intrusive government and smal business rather than looking for the best available overlord(s)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we continue to put more and more power in the hands of the few in  government (and by extension those big companies willing to buy government influence) then the poor (and most of the rest of us) are doomed.  If we change direction to return to more individual freedom and individual responsibility, then the free market will help the vast majority of us adapt to any technological advancement.  As humans, we know best what other humans want and can adapt our skills to use any technology to deliver on those desires.  Support smaller, less intrusive government and smal business rather than looking for the best available overlord(s)&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Editor</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57330</link>
		<dc:creator>Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57330</guid>
		<description>All of the above!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All of the above!</p>
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		<title>By: CBurke</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57326</link>
		<dc:creator>CBurke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57326</guid>
		<description>How about a 20 hour work week? Virtual reality vacations to anywhere?. . . as a sports star . . .aka Total Recall?  Food printed at a fraction of the cost of raising cattle? Printed body replacement parts like kidneys, hearts, lungs . . . from our own cells? Reverse aging? The end of cancer, heart disease and diabetes? Driverless cars? Print your cell phone in your home 3D printer? Free education? Population leveling off as affluence reaches the masses and virtual families replace actual families. Will there be problems. . . ABSOLUTELY . . . will there be solutions . . . FASTER THAN YOU THINK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about a 20 hour work week? Virtual reality vacations to anywhere?. . . as a sports star . . .aka Total Recall?  Food printed at a fraction of the cost of raising cattle? Printed body replacement parts like kidneys, hearts, lungs . . . from our own cells? Reverse aging? The end of cancer, heart disease and diabetes? Driverless cars? Print your cell phone in your home 3D printer? Free education? Population leveling off as affluence reaches the masses and virtual families replace actual families. Will there be problems. . . ABSOLUTELY . . . will there be solutions . . . FASTER THAN YOU THINK.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57316</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 15:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57316</guid>
		<description>&quot;Where the line is and how fast we get to it is currently unforseeable, but It’s likely only 4-5 presidential elections away.&quot;  Let us look up to the coming years and make a few guesses about just what will happen.

The Democrats don&#039;t have a super-majority in Congress, and if the Republicans keep voting down bills to repair infrastructure as &quot;needless and wasteful spending,&quot;  then we will have another do-nothing Congress and the economy could stay in the doldrums until the next Congressional election in 2014.  The Republicans put up roadblocks before everything the Democrats tried to do to restore the economy starting back in 2008.  This lead the voters to throw out a number of Democratic members of the House, so the Tea Party took over the House of Representatives and dragged their feet until now, keeping unemployment over 8% during most of this time.

If the Republicans don&#039;t change their ways, they will drag their feet and slow down progress enough so that they just might win more seats in Congress in the 2014 election.

If that works out for them they will keep on their obstructionist program until 2016 and then things could be so bad that they might take back the White House and both houses of the Congress.

Just imagine that it does happen this way.

This will mean that they will have a majority all the way up until the year 2020. 

Now we have seen lots of news here at this website that computer power will keep advancing into the future.  Roboticists at NASA have predicted that in the next decade we will see robots climbing up the evolutionary ladder, passing by the abilities of more and more complicated animals until they have human capabilities.  Some have predicted that in six to ten years that robots will be able to do any job that people do now.

This leads us to see that robots could create a crisis in employment between the years 2018 and 2022.

If the crisis peaks by 2018, the Democrats could take back the Congress in the mid-term elections, but they would still face a Republican president who would veto everything they try to do to take care of the unemployed.

There could be a great deal of human suffering in the country and in the rest of the world if the robot apocalypse occurs before the Presidential election of the year 2020.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Where the line is and how fast we get to it is currently unforseeable, but It’s likely only 4-5 presidential elections away.&#8221;  Let us look up to the coming years and make a few guesses about just what will happen.</p>
<p>The Democrats don&#8217;t have a super-majority in Congress, and if the Republicans keep voting down bills to repair infrastructure as &#8220;needless and wasteful spending,&#8221;  then we will have another do-nothing Congress and the economy could stay in the doldrums until the next Congressional election in 2014.  The Republicans put up roadblocks before everything the Democrats tried to do to restore the economy starting back in 2008.  This lead the voters to throw out a number of Democratic members of the House, so the Tea Party took over the House of Representatives and dragged their feet until now, keeping unemployment over 8% during most of this time.</p>
<p>If the Republicans don&#8217;t change their ways, they will drag their feet and slow down progress enough so that they just might win more seats in Congress in the 2014 election.</p>
<p>If that works out for them they will keep on their obstructionist program until 2016 and then things could be so bad that they might take back the White House and both houses of the Congress.</p>
<p>Just imagine that it does happen this way.</p>
<p>This will mean that they will have a majority all the way up until the year 2020. </p>
<p>Now we have seen lots of news here at this website that computer power will keep advancing into the future.  Roboticists at NASA have predicted that in the next decade we will see robots climbing up the evolutionary ladder, passing by the abilities of more and more complicated animals until they have human capabilities.  Some have predicted that in six to ten years that robots will be able to do any job that people do now.</p>
<p>This leads us to see that robots could create a crisis in employment between the years 2018 and 2022.</p>
<p>If the crisis peaks by 2018, the Democrats could take back the Congress in the mid-term elections, but they would still face a Republican president who would veto everything they try to do to take care of the unemployed.</p>
<p>There could be a great deal of human suffering in the country and in the rest of the world if the robot apocalypse occurs before the Presidential election of the year 2020.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57308</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57308</guid>
		<description>I wish that you could be right, TomInWales, but I can&#039;t see Business and Industry providing creative meaningful careers for low skilled workers.  Businessmen aren&#039;t the least bit sentimental or sympathetic about the workforce.  They have all the empathy of a sociopath.  In fact, if you look up the seven personality traits of a sociopath, and then look closely at Big Business, you will see that a successful business often operates like a sociopath.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish that you could be right, TomInWales, but I can&#8217;t see Business and Industry providing creative meaningful careers for low skilled workers.  Businessmen aren&#8217;t the least bit sentimental or sympathetic about the workforce.  They have all the empathy of a sociopath.  In fact, if you look up the seven personality traits of a sociopath, and then look closely at Big Business, you will see that a successful business often operates like a sociopath.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57304</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57304</guid>
		<description>I hope you&#039;re right, Bri.  It all depends on just who is in the Congress when the time comes.  They could alter capitalism if they wanted to, but those on the far Right will scream &quot;Socialism&quot; and &quot;Fascism&quot; and drag their feet all the way.  They would rather watch a famine and claim that ending dependence on government is a virtue and that they are doing the poor a favor by cutting them off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope you&#8217;re right, Bri.  It all depends on just who is in the Congress when the time comes.  They could alter capitalism if they wanted to, but those on the far Right will scream &#8220;Socialism&#8221; and &#8220;Fascism&#8221; and drag their feet all the way.  They would rather watch a famine and claim that ending dependence on government is a virtue and that they are doing the poor a favor by cutting them off.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorden Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57298</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorden Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57298</guid>
		<description>&quot; Eventually the number of low skilled unemployable will reach a critical mass where they can vote politicians into office who they see as good candidates. &quot;

     I really hope that&#039;s true, Tim, but I worry that it&#039;s not.

     I&#039;ve worked with lots of low skilled workers and when I try to get them interested in the elections, they make it clear to me that they can&#039;t be bothered.  They don&#039;t read the newspapers or watch the news and some have even expressed wonderment at seeing me read the editorial page.  They can&#039;t understand why anybody would be bothered to do that strange a thing.  

These are the people I worry the most about.  These are the ones who are going to suffer the most as robots get better and better.

I fear that their only hope will be that robots advance so quickly that the crisis will reach a tipping point in less than two years.  A lot of fans of Bill Clinton don&#039;t realize that he took over the ideas of the Republicans in Congress for his own Welfare Reform.  Now when you fall on hard times, you can only get benefits for two years...and those benefits are pretty small as it is.  It is very hard trying to survive on such scanty funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Eventually the number of low skilled unemployable will reach a critical mass where they can vote politicians into office who they see as good candidates. &#8221;</p>
<p>     I really hope that&#8217;s true, Tim, but I worry that it&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>     I&#8217;ve worked with lots of low skilled workers and when I try to get them interested in the elections, they make it clear to me that they can&#8217;t be bothered.  They don&#8217;t read the newspapers or watch the news and some have even expressed wonderment at seeing me read the editorial page.  They can&#8217;t understand why anybody would be bothered to do that strange a thing.  </p>
<p>These are the people I worry the most about.  These are the ones who are going to suffer the most as robots get better and better.</p>
<p>I fear that their only hope will be that robots advance so quickly that the crisis will reach a tipping point in less than two years.  A lot of fans of Bill Clinton don&#8217;t realize that he took over the ideas of the Republicans in Congress for his own Welfare Reform.  Now when you fall on hard times, you can only get benefits for two years&#8230;and those benefits are pretty small as it is.  It is very hard trying to survive on such scanty funds.</p>
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		<title>By: TomInWales</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57282</link>
		<dc:creator>TomInWales</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57282</guid>
		<description>Wow, economic collapse, that&#039;s a little negative. What about a tipping point from dull menial jobs to creative meaningful careers? The lives of the Luddites prior to the industrial revolution, from our standpoint, seem to be filled with drudgery and poverty. Perhaps an equivalent change will be wrought? Well that or doom doom doom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, economic collapse, that&#8217;s a little negative. What about a tipping point from dull menial jobs to creative meaningful careers? The lives of the Luddites prior to the industrial revolution, from our standpoint, seem to be filled with drudgery and poverty. Perhaps an equivalent change will be wrought? Well that or doom doom doom.</p>
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		<title>By: tim the realist</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57267</link>
		<dc:creator>tim the realist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57267</guid>
		<description>As we progress towards the singularity, it&#039;s very diffficult to predict the socio-economic implications.  

In China, they use teams of workers with shovels to dig road beds, rather than using heavy equipment to &quot;create jobs&quot;  If you armed the workers with teaspoons there would be even more jobs!  There the state can control these types of business decisions.  in America, corporate competition drive efficiency and low cost at the expense of jobs.

Fewer low skilled workers are needed each year as they are replaced by automation.  Eventually the number of low skilled unemployable will reach a critical mass where they can vote politicians into office who they see as good candidates.  

Where the line is and how fast we get to it is currently unforseeable, but It&#039;s likely only 4-5 presidential elections away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we progress towards the singularity, it&#8217;s very diffficult to predict the socio-economic implications.  </p>
<p>In China, they use teams of workers with shovels to dig road beds, rather than using heavy equipment to &#8220;create jobs&#8221;  If you armed the workers with teaspoons there would be even more jobs!  There the state can control these types of business decisions.  in America, corporate competition drive efficiency and low cost at the expense of jobs.</p>
<p>Fewer low skilled workers are needed each year as they are replaced by automation.  Eventually the number of low skilled unemployable will reach a critical mass where they can vote politicians into office who they see as good candidates.  </p>
<p>Where the line is and how fast we get to it is currently unforseeable, but It&#8217;s likely only 4-5 presidential elections away.</p>
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		<title>By: Bri</title>
		<link>http://www.kurzweilai.net/scientists-see-promise-in-deep-learning-programs/comment-page-1#comment-57253</link>
		<dc:creator>Bri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kurzweilai.net/?p=172354#comment-57253</guid>
		<description>In a few years they will be able to solve the robotic workers issues. Then it&#039;s define by the speed of adopting new technology. My guess is about ten years out we will start to feel the major economic upheaval. About five years from there the tipping point of economic collapse should hit. Then we will be forced to alter capitalism. Once robots can walk amongst us, it will seem to happen blindingly fast. ( stock tip. Companies that make and design robots. Over eight billion served!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a few years they will be able to solve the robotic workers issues. Then it&#8217;s define by the speed of adopting new technology. My guess is about ten years out we will start to feel the major economic upheaval. About five years from there the tipping point of economic collapse should hit. Then we will be forced to alter capitalism. Once robots can walk amongst us, it will seem to happen blindingly fast. ( stock tip. Companies that make and design robots. Over eight billion served!)</p>
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